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    Post by Zez on August 30th 2010, 11:31 pm

    What are your life principles? Excluding any religious adherence explain some of your creeds, or maxims, you live by that represent your school of thought.

    If you wish to criticize someone's opinion of life do so civilly, derogatory remarks will not be tolerated.

    1.- Trust does not exist.
    2.- Uncertainty is the only certainty.
    3.- All evil comes from emotions.
    4.- In all you do exercise self control, honor, dignity, and respect.
    5.- There is no fate.
    6.- Consider every possibility.

    You?


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    Post by Independence76 on August 30th 2010, 11:36 pm

    3.- Any absolute truth, hypothetical or otherwise, is unobtainable. All is unknowable.

    With this, you are implying your statement is the truth. Therefore, it is self-refuting and illogical.
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    Post by Zez on August 30th 2010, 11:38 pm

    Independence76 wrote:
    3.- Any absolute truth, hypothetical or otherwise, is unobtainable. All is unknowable.

    With this, you are implying your statement is the truth. Therefore, it is self-refuting and illogical.

    I'm not asserting that the said statement is an absolute truth, rather, that any "true" truth, if it exists, can not be known.

    I acknowledge that my statement is not the truth either, rather a theory that attempts to explain a truth that can be unanimously agreed upon, which at this time does not exist, can not be held. Thanks for pointing the hole out, however.
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    Post by Independence76 on August 30th 2010, 11:41 pm

    Zez wrote:
    I'm not asserting that the said statement is an absolute truth, rather, that any "true" truth, if it exists, can not be known. I acknowledge that my statement is not the truth either, rather, a theory than anything. Thanks for pointing the hole out, though.

    But, the claim that it cannot be known in itself is canceled out by the nature of the statement.

    By this, it's not crazy to assume we can indeed know absolute truth, so that we may discern right from wrong. Otherwise, if right and wrong are not known, even then, we would not know a "correct" view upon life philosophy.
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    Post by Zez on August 30th 2010, 11:49 pm

    If it changes anything, I'd like to note that I did edit my response after it was posted.

    Independence76 wrote:But, the claim that it cannot be known in itself is canceled out by the nature of the statement.

    A paradox is a paradox, and I'd only be confirming my insanity if I argued this any longer. I said what I'll say about it, that the nature is implying a truth, but it's meant to be taken with salt, not as a truth, but a description of it.

    Independence76 wrote:By this, it's not crazy to assume we can indeed know absolute truth, so that we may discern right from wrong. Otherwise, if right and wrong are not known, even then, we would not know a "correct" view upon life philosophy.

    Right and wrong can't be known if the truth isn't known. The question is how do you obtain truth?
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    Post by Independence76 on August 30th 2010, 11:52 pm


    Right and wrong can't be known if the truth isn't known. The question is how do you obtain truth?

    The only logical explanation for a series of universal truth would be a God.

    There are many arguments for the existence of God and they are all very complex, taken from highly educated theologians and philosophers.
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    Post by Zez on August 30th 2010, 11:54 pm

    Independence76 wrote:The only logical explanation for a series of universal truth would be a God.

    There are many arguments for the existence of God and they are all very complex, taken from highly educated theologians and philosophers.

    Suspending religion for a moment, suppose there was no God. I'm not saying there isn't, but for the sake of argument, say there isn't.

    How then?
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    Post by jwm03h on August 31st 2010, 12:03 am

    1. The only real reason for living is to be blissfully happy.

    2. Is it worth living a life of only pain and misery? I think not.

    3. Happiness comes from having high desires, and achieving them?

    4. Christianity and religion cause much unhappiness.

    5. Feminism causes much unhappiness.

    6. The seeking of knowledge is a slow, painful process.

    7. Imagination is more important than knowledge- Einstein.

    In response to some of your maxims:

    complete trust is an improbability- clarify..... is it impossible?

    The only true certainty is the principle of uncertainty- this is interesting to think about. There are people that believe a talisman will bring them good luck, and it's true, because they believe it. In order to be certain about something, it does not necessarily have to be real or true, you only need believe.

    all is unknowable: there really isn't a lot to "know". The world is very basic and fundamental. However, you can never stop learning about the basics and the fundamentals. what are the basics of art? how can you improve these basics? there is an endless number of ways to do so.

    emotion, abridged, is the root of all evil? I've never heard of such a claim. On retrospect, it seems absurd. Love is an emotion. Happiness is an emotion. Content is an emotion. Joyful is an emotion. None of these are evil.....Shakesphere put it like this: Nothing is either good or bad, only the mind makes it so. Reality is reality, but our imagination can make it good or bad. Reality simply is what it is. Everyone has a different view of it because everyone has a different imagination or mind.

    the ideal values to abide by are self control, dignity, honor and respect. This i feel deep within me. Without these, the desire to live is obsolete. anyone who does not have dignity, honor, or respect, or self control, will be miserable. They will feel shamed. Well, picture this: a child pornographer gets arrested and put in jail. A guard beats him everyday and tells him to kill himself over the intercom everyday. He lets a violent prisoner out who subsequently beats him into a coma. This man has no dignity, honor, respect or self control right? why does he keep on living? does he have a different view of himself than others have of him? Did the guard act in a dignified manner? Its a matter of opinion, but i'm rather curious about people's views on this. wouldn't he be better off dead anyway?

    there are no predetermined events, or fate, everything is the result of another:

    I disagree, when we were born, we were born with a set of genes. These genes were predetermined by our parents, or as a result of another as you say. Our genetic make up causes us to act a certain way. A cat acts differently than a dog. It is predetermined?

    Justice is an undefinable quality: Justice is not undefinable. It is simply defined differently by different people. What constitutes justice is a matter of opinion.





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    Post by Independence76 on August 31st 2010, 12:06 am

    Zez wrote:
    Suspending religion for a moment, suppose there was no God. I'm not saying there isn't, but for the sake of argument, say there isn't.

    How then?

    The idea of "truth" could not exist within such a society if no one questioned a universal order.

    But, even then, it would be impossible to comprehend under such circumstances for sure, as there really would be no correct or incorrect. We could believe whatever we'd like, and no one would stop us. However, all roads would end the same place: oblivion.

    jwm03h wrote:
    Shakesphere put it like this: Nothing is either good or bad, only the mind makes it so. Reality is reality, but our imagination can make it good or bad. Reality simply is what it is. Everyone has a different view of it because everyone has a different imagination or mind.

    Truth is beyond emotions.
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    Post by Miles24 on August 31st 2010, 2:05 am

    Here are a few of my principles.

    1: No matter the situation, take all things into consideration until the truth can be seen.
    2: There are three sides to the truth.
    3: Always take the time to enjoy what you have in life.
    4: Never say never.
    5: Reality is what you make of it.
    6: Always help others when they are in need.
    7: The imagination can be a useful tool no matter the subject.

    1: When you consider many situations, whether it be in science, math, or normal life, there can be multiple possibilities to get to the same truth. Thus, one must keep an open mind until the one true path is visible.

    2: No matter what, there is always three sides to the truth. There is the truth from one pary, the truth from the other party, and what the third party can conclude from the information from the two other parties, which in most situations, is the real truth.

    5: Each person has their own take on reality, and that person can shape their reality to be what they want it to be. (On the grounds of what is possible.)

    7: Many of the inventions that exist today were through the imagination and creativity of the inventors, and the such still occures. So long as you have the right tools and the right idea, anything is possible.
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    Post by Shade on August 31st 2010, 2:50 am

    My life philosophy is as follows:

    1.) Trust Nobody
    2.) Authority is a tool. Use it to protect yourself.
    3.) Perseverance wins the day
    4.) Put studies first
    5.) Always have a plan
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    Post by Guest on August 31st 2010, 8:12 am

    1: I only relent when I have something better to do with my time, and so long as I have an interest in something, I will eventually come back to finish what I started.
    2: I am inherently superior to all that exists, save for myself, to prevent paradoxes.
    3: The Evil Overlord List is my bible. Or, at least, the entries that are applicable to reality are.
    4: I tell truths only when absolutely necessary to further my goals; I tell secrets never.
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    Post by Bria on August 31st 2010, 1:45 pm

    I don't really have any principles that I follow absolutely. There is few 'rules' that I try and life by:

    Enjoy life and don't stress if you can
    Help a friend when needed/be supportive
    Work towards the future and don't get caught up in dreary past events
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    Post by Zez on August 31st 2010, 4:35 pm

    Miles reminded me. One of my more important principles is "consider every possibility", because of this, I've edited my third and seventh maxims.
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    Post by Jmh on August 31st 2010, 4:40 pm

    1) The cake is a lie.
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    Post by karkooshy on September 1st 2010, 3:48 am

    1. Treat others the way they want to be treated.
    2. Know more than what you show.
    3. Have trust in everyone. They have a chance to fortify the trust or lose it.
    4 Even the word impossible itself is spelt "I'm possible".
    5. To err is human, to forgive is divine.
    6. There is always another way.
    7. Evil is simply the absence of good. :)
    8. Trust in the heart of the cards xP

    That is ofcourse, regardless to any religious beliefs :mrgreen:


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    Post by Super Racer Z on September 1st 2010, 7:26 pm

    1.) Life is always worth living, no matter the situation.

    2.) Treat others the way you'd want to be treated.
    (unless you don't want to be treated respectfully, in which case you should work towards improving whatever you dislike about yourself. Also avoid being taken advantage of)

    3.) Trust must be earned. Breaking a major promise or telling a major lie will always alter how much someone trusts you. It also goes the other way, as you should never easily give trust back to someone who lied or stole from you or deeply trust in someone you don't know well enough, as it sets you up to be hurt or have things stolen from you.

    4.) Life can and likely will be cruel. Try to keep a positive outlook on things, and understand that it happens to everyone at some point.


    And that's as much as I can think of right now.


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    Post by Jmh on September 1st 2010, 9:01 pm

    I'll post a serious response now.

    1) Don't quit easily,
    2) Treat others the way they treat you,
    3) Don't forget to use your head before opening your mouth,
    4) Never be negative about anything,
    5) Don't share too much information to anyone, not even your own family,
    6) Always put emotions last,
    7) Always get the job done.
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    Post by Erazor on September 4th 2010, 1:00 am

    1.) Life is always worth living, no matter the situation.

    This is the only idea in the thread I fully agree with.
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    Post by Zez on September 11th 2010, 12:42 am

    jwm03h wrote:complete trust is an improbability- clarify..... is it impossible?

    I edited my original maxims to be a bit clearer. Yes, I believe true and complete trust is an impossibility.

    jwm03h wrote:The only true certainty is the principle of uncertainty- this is interesting to think about. There are people that believe a talisman will bring them good luck, and it's true, because they believe it. In order to be certain about something, it does not necessarily have to be real or true, you only need believe.

    How does that relate to certainty?

    jwm03h wrote:all is unknowable: there really isn't a lot to "know". The world is very basic and fundamental. However, you can never stop learning about the basics and the fundamentals. what are the basics of art? how can you improve these basics? there is an endless number of ways to do so.

    I removed this from my list of principles, feel free to ignore it.

    jwm03h wrote:emotion, abridged, is the root of all evil? I've never heard of such a claim. On retrospect, it seems absurd. Love is an emotion. Happiness is an emotion. Content is an emotion. Joyful is an emotion. None of these are evil.....Shakesphere put it like this: Nothing is either good or bad, only the mind makes it so. Reality is reality, but our imagination can make it good or bad. Reality simply is what it is. Everyone has a different view of it because everyone has a different imagination or mind.

    No matter how positive an emotion may seem or intend to be, they all eventually cause strife in one way or another. Neutrality is a must.

    jwm03h wrote:the ideal values to abide by are self control, dignity, honor and respect. This i feel deep within me. Without these, the desire to live is obsolete. anyone who does not have dignity, honor, or respect, or self control, will be miserable. They will feel shamed. Well, picture this: a child pornographer gets arrested and put in jail. A guard beats him everyday and tells him to kill himself over the intercom everyday. He lets a violent prisoner out who subsequently beats him into a coma. This man has no dignity, honor, respect or self control right? why does he keep on living? does he have a different view of himself than others have of him? Did the guard act in a dignified manner? Its a matter of opinion, but i'm rather curious about people's views on this. wouldn't he be better off dead anyway?

    I appreciate that someone agrees.

    jwm03h wrote:there are no predetermined events, or fate, everything is the result of another:

    I disagree, when we were born, we were born with a set of genes. These genes were predetermined by our parents, or as a result of another as you say. Our genetic make up causes us to act a certain way. A cat acts differently than a dog. It is predetermined?

    Birth isn't predetermined, an abortion can happen that stops it. A cat behaving differently isn't predetermined, they can learn alternative behaviors, and have.

    jwm03h wrote:Justice is an undefinable quality: Justice is not undefinable. It is simply defined differently by different people. What constitutes justice is a matter of opinion.

    I believe I also edited this to a point where it no longer effects me, feel free to ignore this passage as well.
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    Post by jwm03h on September 11th 2010, 12:56 am

    Complete trust is an impossiblity- no comment. Nothing can ever be fully complete, there are varying degrees to everything, but there is always a way to make something even more complete, and more complete, and more complete, its infinite.

    Certainty- how certain you are about something. You can be absolutely certain that the world is flat, even if it is round. It has nothing to do with reality, only to do with how you feel.

    Emotions do not cause strife. When you are happy, that happiness did not cause you to be unhappy. Being joyful, full of love, is not going to cause you to be miserable.
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    Post by Independence76 on September 11th 2010, 1:04 am

    Zez wrote:I edited my original maxims to be a bit clearer. Yes, I believe true and complete trust is an impossibility.

    I believe there are absolutes, but the human mind is not designed to be capable of "full knowledge."

    jwm03h wrote:emotion, abridged, is the root of all evil? I've never heard of such a claim. On retrospect, it seems absurd. Love is an emotion. Happiness is an emotion. Content is an emotion. Joyful is an emotion. None of these are evil.....Shakesphere put it like this: Nothing is either good or bad, only the mind makes it so. Reality is reality, but our imagination can make it good or bad. Reality simply is what it is. Everyone has a different view of it because everyone has a different imagination or mind.

    Truth is beyond emotions. They can lead to wondrous outcomes or hideous events. We have a choice in their creation, but not their effect.


    Neutrality is a must.

    Neutrality is non-existent.


    Birth isn't predetermined, an abortion can happen that stops it. A cat behaving differently isn't predetermined, they can learn alternative behaviors, and have.

    And how is predetermination an impossibility?

    Are you familiar with "The Butterfly Effect?"

    jwm03h wrote:Justice is an undefinable quality: Justice is not undefinable. It is simply defined differently by different people. What constitutes justice is a matter of opinion.

    Then what possibly can we use to judge your statement as correct/right or incorrect/wrong?

    We cannot decide the limits above our power and minds.
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    Post by Zez on September 11th 2010, 1:15 am

    Independence76 wrote:The human mind is not designed to be capable of "full knowledge."

    This I agree with.

    Independence76 wrote:Neutrality is non-existent.

    For someone who believes in absolutes, right and wrong, there's a dilemma. Do you absolutely believe in absolutes, so much so that there are truly only black and white comparisons towards anything and everything? No third option at all, ever? Or are you a believer of absolutes as a truth, in which case, neutrality has to exist if absolutes exist. It's like saying an empty room is filled with nothing, it's also filled with everything, and all matter in between. It can't be either/or. Even if you do believe in extreme "always is/never is" thinking, neutrality would still need to exist to provide balance. Without balance, what is there? Chaos.
    I can understand the difficulty in defining neutrality, and maybe that's what you meant, neutrality can not be defined in the way that there is no true objectivity from a human perspective, but even then it's possible, simply arduous.

    Independence76 wrote:And how is predetermination an impossibility? Are you familiar with "The Butterfly Effect?"

    Without research, yes, I believe I do. It affirms my belief that everything is the result of another. The butterfly effect is a perfect example of what I believe, unless it incorporates somehow an element of fate, to which I refute, as it demonstrates how everything at random will have a cause and an effect created at random, though the actions and consequences are real, true, verifiable, and solid, what caused any of it to happen was not somehow premeditated, and if it were, not to an extent beyond any sentient being's comprehension, so far ahead that any semblance of planning breaks down past recognition.
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    Post by Independence76 on September 11th 2010, 1:18 am


    Independence76 wrote:Neutrality is non-existent.

    For someone who believes in absolutes, right and wrong, there's a dilemma. Do you absolutely believe in absolutes, so much so that there are truly only black and white comparisons towards anything and everything? No third option at all, ever? Or are you a believer of absolutes as a truth, in which case, neutrality has to exist if absolutes exist. It's like saying an empty room is filled with nothing, it's also filled with everything, and all matter in between. It can't be either/or. Even if you do believe in extreme "always is/never is" thinking, neutrality would still need to exist to provide balance. Without balance, what is there? Chaos.
    I can understand the difficulty in defining neutrality, and maybe that's what you meant, neutrality can not be defined in the way that there is no true objectivity from a human perspective, but even then it's possible, simply arduous.

    To first put credibility to your statements, you must have the judgment of "correct" or "incorrect."

    For it to be both, would be contradictory.

    While my knowledge of right and wrong cannot be 100%, I believe they do very well exist if this physical order would be called "logical."


    Independence76 wrote:And how is predetermination an impossibility? Are you familiar with "The Butterfly Effect?"

    Without research, yes, I believe I do. It affirms my belief that everything is the result of another. The butterfly effect is a perfect example of what I believe, unless it incorporates somehow an element of fate, to which I refute, as it demonstrates how everything at random will have a cause and an effect created at random, though the actions and consequences are real, true, verifiable, and solid, what caused any of it to happen was not somehow premeditated, and if it were, not to an extent beyond any sentient being's comprehension, so far ahead that any semblance of planning breaks down past recognition.

    Nature is not a random series of occurrences. It is a series of repeated occurrences that can be defined for a purpose.

    But, nature did not create itself. Whatever caused nature, must have been outside of nature, or, by a better definition, supernatural.
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    Post by Zez on September 11th 2010, 1:28 am

    Independence76 wrote:To first put credibility to your statements, you must have the judgment of "correct" or "incorrect." For it to be both, would be contradictory.

    I can't respond directly because this response was too vague. Are you trying to say that I'm being contradictory for believing neutrality exists, because for neutrality to exist, a view of right and wrong must also exist? It's hard to tell what specifically you're referring to without any example or further explanation.

    Independence76 wrote:While my knowledge of right and wrong cannot be 100%, I believe they do very well exist if this physical order would be called "logical."

    Again, what do you mean by "physical order"? If your concepts of right and wrong aren't 100%, how absolute are your absolutes? Absolutes are a complete whole, not a fraction of one.

    Independence76 wrote:Nature is not a random series of occurrences. It is a series of repeated occurrences that can be defined for a purpose.

    I will concur, nature itself is not a random series of occurrences. I do however, believe that human's actions are not being controlled, manipulated or influenced by an outside force greater than any other animal or plant that exists, i.e; humans. This is not to say that an outside force does not exist. On the contrary, I do believe one does in fact exist. However, I deny any involvement of that force with human's actions, and at the very least, a direct contact or persuasion.

    Independence76 wrote:But, nature did not create itself. Whatever caused nature, must have been outside of nature, or, by a better definition, supernatural.

    I agree.

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