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    Post by Schismatist on February 22nd 2011, 5:48 pm

    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    Schismatist wrote:
    A change in art style doesn't have anything to do with story.
    I disagree here. Aesthetics do matter. A green eyed Sonic from Adventure on makes sense, but putting a green-eyed Sonic in what is supposed to be a classic game ruins the whole idea of the classic. A green eyed Sonic isn't classic.

    So in certain cases, art does matter, at least in my book.
    Sonic's art style was changed to be more stylistic, keep up with the times, make Sonic more MODERN. It had nothing to do with Sonic gaining green vision or him stretching his body.
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 23rd 2011, 3:18 pm

    Schismatist wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    I disagree here. Aesthetics do matter. A green eyed Sonic from Adventure on makes sense, but putting a green-eyed Sonic in what is supposed to be a classic game ruins the whole idea of the classic. A green eyed Sonic isn't classic.

    So in certain cases, art does matter, at least in my book.
    Sonic's art style was changed to be more stylistic, keep up with the times, make Sonic more MODERN. It had nothing to do with Sonic gaining green vision or him stretching his body.

    I understand, and that's fine with me. I actually prefer the newer Sonic. But trying to act MODERN in a game that is supposed to be RETRO is the core of the problem. The two don't mix.
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    Post by Schismatist on February 23rd 2011, 6:47 pm

    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    Schismatist wrote:
    Sonic's art style was changed to be more stylistic, keep up with the times, make Sonic more MODERN. It had nothing to do with Sonic gaining green vision or him stretching his body.
    I understand, and that's fine with me. I actually prefer the newer Sonic. But trying to act MODERN in a game that is supposed to be RETRO is the core of the problem. The two don't mix.
    Actually, I just love Sonic 4's graphics. It's very colorful, vibrant, and just puts me in a bright mood... The graphics, anyway, not the game itself.
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    Post by Jmh on February 23rd 2011, 7:58 pm

    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    Schismatist wrote:
    Sonic's art style was changed to be more stylistic, keep up with the times, make Sonic more MODERN. It had nothing to do with Sonic gaining green vision or him stretching his body.

    I understand, and that's fine with me. I actually prefer the newer Sonic. But trying to act MODERN in a game that is supposed to be RETRO is the core of the problem. The two don't mix.
    He acts just like he did in the classics though (Doesn't talk).
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    Post by Schismatist on February 23rd 2011, 8:41 pm

    Jmh wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:

    I understand, and that's fine with me. I actually prefer the newer Sonic. But trying to act MODERN in a game that is supposed to be RETRO is the core of the problem. The two don't mix.
    He acts just like he did in the classics though (Doesn't talk).
    Just don't bring logic into this discussion. I'll stay out of this debate as long as possible.
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 23rd 2011, 9:34 pm

    Schismatist wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    I understand, and that's fine with me. I actually prefer the newer Sonic. But trying to act MODERN in a game that is supposed to be RETRO is the core of the problem. The two don't mix.
    Actually, I just love Sonic 4's graphics. It's very colorful, vibrant, and just puts me in a bright mood... The graphics, anyway, not the game itself.
    I never said there was anything wrong with the graphics. I said Sonic's green eyes was the problem. I don't know how I can make it anymore obvious of what I feel the problem is. Sonic didn't have green eyes when he was in Sonic 3, did he?
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 23rd 2011, 10:28 pm

    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    Schismatist wrote:
    Actually, I just love Sonic 4's graphics. It's very colorful, vibrant, and just puts me in a bright mood... The graphics, anyway, not the game itself.
    I never said there was anything wrong with the graphics. I said Sonic's green eyes was the problem. I don't know how I can make it anymore obvious of what I feel the problem is. Sonic didn't have green eyes when he was in Sonic 3, did he?
    YES HE DID

    If you look closer on Super Sonic's sprite he does indeed have green eyes
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    Post by Schismatist on February 23rd 2011, 11:23 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    I never said there was anything wrong with the graphics. I said Sonic's green eyes was the problem. I don't know how I can make it anymore obvious of what I feel the problem is. Sonic didn't have green eyes when he was in Sonic 3, did he?
    YES HE DID

    If you look closer on Super Sonic's sprite he does indeed have green eyes
    Stop the logic, please.
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 24th 2011, 8:05 am

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    I never said there was anything wrong with the graphics. I said Sonic's green eyes was the problem. I don't know how I can make it anymore obvious of what I feel the problem is. Sonic didn't have green eyes when he was in Sonic 3, did he?
    YES HE DID

    If you look closer on Super Sonic's sprite he does indeed have green eyes
    That's what I've been saying all along. This IS the logic I'm trying to convey, but I'm assuming you guys are being your sarcastic selves, or you really that completely ignorant to not hear what I say after the third or fourth time? Sonic shouldn't have green eyes in a classic game. I don't care how well the graphics are, but the green eyes I have a strong distaste for, as it basically erases the history of classic Sonic.
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    Post by Jmh on February 24th 2011, 5:09 pm

    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    NeoMetalSonic wrote:YES HE DID

    If you look closer on Super Sonic's sprite he does indeed have green eyes
    That's what I've been saying all along. This IS the logic I'm trying to convey, but I'm assuming you guys are being your sarcastic selves, or you really that completely ignorant to not hear what I say after the third or fourth time? Sonic shouldn't have green eyes in a classic game. I don't care how well the graphics are, but the green eyes I have a strong distaste for, as it basically erases the history of classic Sonic.
    So the 2005 remake of King Kong ruins the classic because he looks more like an ape in it?
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 24th 2011, 5:13 pm

    But the Classic Sonic did have green eyes So it only make sense for Sonic 4 Sonic to have green eyes
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 24th 2011, 7:15 pm

    Jmh wrote:
    Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
    That's what I've been saying all along. This IS the logic I'm trying to convey, but I'm assuming you guys are being your sarcastic selves, or you really that completely ignorant to not hear what I say after the third or fourth time? Sonic shouldn't have green eyes in a classic game. I don't care how well the graphics are, but the green eyes I have a strong distaste for, as it basically erases the history of classic Sonic.
    So the 2005 remake of King Kong ruins the classic because he looks more like an ape in it?

    That's different. Sonic 4 isn't a remake. It's a continuation of a preexisting series. It's fine that Sonic has green eyes in Adventure, Adventure 2 and any other game but Sonic 4. The "original Sonic series" should have the original Sonic.

    And the original Sonic did NOT have green eyes. Sonic had green eyes starting with the Adventure series. NeoMetalSonic, I'm guessing you've never seen this then: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_tkFz5AXRZog/TSWiHRyaKuI/AAAAAAAAAGw/-EVX2qRlyxE/s1600/sonic-the-hedgehog.jpg

    When people try to refute this argument, they forget what I say in bold. Eye color isn't the problem. Eye color aesthetics in an inconsistent time frame is the problem.
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    Post by Jmh on February 24th 2011, 7:52 pm

    But the thing is, Sonic's appearance change isn't because of any specific event in the timeline. Some people say that Sonic's eyes were black because he was younger in the classics, but I disagree with that. Honestly, I think it's because SEGA decided to update his appearance. That's all. I'm sure a lot of users here could agree with me that if they decided to remake the Genesis games, they would use green eyed Sonic.
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 24th 2011, 9:15 pm

    Jmh wrote:But the thing is, Sonic's appearance change isn't because of any specific event in the timeline. Some people say that Sonic's eyes were black because he was younger in the classics, but I disagree with that. Honestly, I think it's because SEGA decided to update his appearance. That's all. I'm sure a lot of users here could agree with me that if they decided to remake the Genesis games, they would use green eyed Sonic.

    Like I said, the update is fine. But updating in a classic game just ruins the whole classic feel in my opinion. They did the same with the old Robotnik in the originals to the new Eggman in Sonic 4.

    My opinion is that the game has lost its heritage, its timeline, its memories. That's what I feel when a green eyed Sonic is used in a game supposedly classic. That's like 8 years or so of black-eyed Sonic wiped off the radar.

    There's a time when an update should be regressed and a time where it should stay. I say Sonic 4 is the time where Sega should have gone back to the basics with an old school Sonic. Any other "new" game that comes out, I'm fine with a green-eyed Sonic, and prefer it in the new games, but not with a classic series that started the whole franchise with the original blue blur I grew up with.

    Anyway, I'll stop talking about it here. I'm already getting carried away and I don't want another incident like at Sonic Blast. Anyway, this is my view on it.
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 24th 2011, 10:52 pm

    Thats the y American artwork of Sonic

    Here is something from the game itself

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    Thus if Sonic 4 didn't have green eyes then he wouldn't be retro sonic
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 25th 2011, 5:50 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:Thats the y American artwork of Sonic

    Here is something from the game itself

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    Thus if Sonic 4 didn't have green eyes then he wouldn't be retro sonic
    Yes, but that is Super Sonic. And the modern Super Sonic has red eyes. So this proves nothing. And you could have easily photoshopped that anyway, there's no conclusive proof without several pictures (and unpixelated ones).
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 25th 2011, 6:03 pm

    Are you stupid?
    Are you even a real Sonic fan?
    Go look at the official sprites in spriters resource
    Sonic has green eyes from using all the chaos emeralds and red eyes is to show he has grow stronger when using Super Sonic

    I can't believe you don't know this
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    Post by Jmh on February 25th 2011, 6:47 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:Are you stupid?
    Are you even a real Sonic fan?
    Go look at the official sprites in spriters resource
    Sonic has green eyes from using all the chaos emeralds and red eyes is to show he has grow stronger when using Super Sonic

    I can't believe you don't know this
    So does that mean eventually normal Sonic will have red eyes?
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 25th 2011, 6:51 pm

    Jmh wrote:
    NeoMetalSonic wrote:Are you stupid?
    Are you even a real Sonic fan?
    Go look at the official sprites in spriters resource
    Sonic has green eyes from using all the chaos emeralds and red eyes is to show he has grow stronger when using Super Sonic

    I can't believe you don't know this
    So does that mean eventually normal Sonic will have red eyes?
    Possibly if SEGA feel like he should
    But then again fans will cry tears that could rival the Nile River when they see he change
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    Post by Jmh on February 25th 2011, 7:10 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:
    Jmh wrote:So does that mean eventually normal Sonic will have red eyes?
    Possibly if SEGA feel like he should
    But then again fans will cry tears that could rival the Nile River when they see he change
    Are you serious? If I saw them change Sonic the Hedgehog's eye color to freakin' red I would cry tears of fanjoy and epicness.
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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 25th 2011, 8:50 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:Are you stupid?
    Are you even a real Sonic fan?
    Go look at the official sprites in spriters resource
    Sonic has green eyes from using all the chaos emeralds and red eyes is to show he has grow stronger when using Super Sonic

    I can't believe you don't know this
    Please show my some other pics without pixelation and I'll believe you. Been a long time fan and never seen this. In any case, the regular Sonic did not have green eyes. I've played Sonic for years and haven't noticed this. And I'm not talking about Super Sonic, just the regular Sonic icon.

    You can never be taken seriously because you speak in sarcasm... therefore, I can't think anything you say logically anyway. In any case, I'm ignoring the immaturity because I want to be mature.

    Take a look at this: http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?350228-One-step-above-Hyper-Sonic/page16

    It appears the question of Super Sonic's eyes being green or black is in debate. But I've seen his eyes black at the beginning of SA3, so I don't know where the proof of the green eyes come from. Either way, this does not dispute the fact the original Sonic has black eyes then later green eyes.
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on February 25th 2011, 9:49 pm

    The "Official" Sonic Canon???  - Page 2 Supersonic
    Are you even reading my posts
    I thought you can't tell sarcasm through the internet
    Was that a lie because there was no sarcasm in my post
    It sounds like you're just trying to make excuses to cover yourself up
    You still haven't tell me why he shouldn't have green eyes since he got them from being Super Sonic thus he should have them in Sonic 4

    Also what did you post since it had nothing to do with this topic
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    Post by Schismatist on February 26th 2011, 4:12 am

    Oh God. Someone, lock this topic.
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    Post by Jmh on February 26th 2011, 4:42 am

    So much for making a thread about the canon. Now we have debate about Super Sonic's eye color.


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    Post by Sonic Adventure 2 on February 26th 2011, 10:34 am

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:The "Official" Sonic Canon???  - Page 2 Supersonic
    Are you even reading my posts
    I thought you can't tell sarcasm through the internet
    Was that a lie because there was no sarcasm in my post
    It sounds like you're just trying to make excuses to cover yourself up
    You still haven't tell me why he shouldn't have green eyes since he got them from being Super Sonic thus he should have them in Sonic 4

    Also what did you post since it had nothing to do with this topic

    1. I refuse to play Sonic 4, because of its unhistorical plot line, so I care less what eye color Super Sonic has in it, because it is illogical to the series

    2. When did Super Sonic have green eyes? I'm still missing this point of you. I have never seen Super Sonic with green eyes, though I must admit I have not seen him much in the regular series. I've seen him with black eyes, then when the Adventure series came around, they gave him red eyes in Super form since Sonic Adventure. The Adventure series marked the only change in Sonic that continued throughout; after that there should be no change unless in terms of the older games; Sonic 4 violates this (I have no clue about Super Sonic because I refuse to play it, but if Super Sonic does indeed have green eyes in Sonic 4, it is even more false to the series because Super Sonic has red eyes from Adventure on).

    And even if Super Sonic did have green eyes in the past, you have failed to answer my question: how does this explain a regular green eyed Sonic in Sonic 4 when he is supposed to have black eyes like the original?

    And if Super Sonic's eyes were truly green at the beginning of Sonic 3 and how come he has red eyes now? And hpw does this connect to Sonic 4 violation or the regular Sonic's eye color mishap?

    Lastly, may I presume in saying that Sonic and Super Sonic are two distinct characters of different evolution processes with different eye color history and thus do not connect in this argument.

    There is no logic in the argument at all. You could argue for Sonic alone, but there's no facts that can conclusively prove this. Sega has dug themselves in and made the series illogical by simply switching time zones and eye pigments in Sonic 4, thus ruining any canon there ever was (connection to point #5). This is the point I'm getting across. I don't care about what eye colors there were in the past or that there are now, I simply care about it for the sake of crossing these barriers and ruining once was aesthetic truth.

    3. Show me one instance where Sonic got green eyes from being Super Sonic, because I have not seen a clear game image of Super Sonic having green eyes as a permanent form (and I haven't even seen it as of yet a temporary form; if you do prove this, please refrain from using the unhistoric Sonic 4 as the whole history of Sonic controversy lies in this game).

    If this becomes proven, let it be said that you were right in this case, even though it refutes nothing about the argument as a whole (it's a completely separate topic as I've been saying from the beginning). Let alone, the whole idea of the regular Sonic getting green eyes from Super Sonic makes no sense. They are two separate domains. And it does not explain the unhistorical change in Sonic 4.

    4. You aren't making yourself clear which is why I can't give you a defined answer. You are jumping into an argument that is separate from mine yet claiming it is the same, you aren't writing understandable sentences, and I have not had a single clear question from you. Like I said, your "fake" sarcasm comes time to time and I can't tell if you're taking things seriously or not, or just fooling around in the same way you got yourself in trouble (which apparently wasn't taken wisely as sarcasm from others). If I did understand you, I'd still have an answer similar to the one I have now, which is simply refuting a question without plain facts. May I mention it was a question that does not answer my original question about the eye shift in Sonic 4.

    5. Lastly, Sonic's eye color has to do with the Sonic canon, because we are talking about whether Sonic himself is fit to be canon today after changing his own aesthetic history. This is a clear controversy when talking about a Sonic canon, because it uncertifies all the former Sonic series.

    6. From records I have thus encountered (and not the one you've shown me as that is user created apparently), it appears Super Sonic has a green pigment in Sonic 3 (wouldn't know, never had Super Sonic) from time to time, but it is so small and not there 100% of the time (your above pic shows a Super without them). As stated, this does not prove why there is an eye change in Sonic 4. The original argument is still left for dispute.

    But Super Sonic's green eyes is NOT a constant, and NOT original, as he is made with black eyes here (and I believe in several other games besides Sonic 3): http://www.tssznews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/First_4_Figures_Series_2.png

    And here: http://pressthebuttons.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452033569e20133f2e3099a970b-800wi
    (these are made by Sega by the way)

    And this: http://sonicology.fateback.com/cheats/sonic2-super.png

    I will further try to find more on this if you all want to proceed, but it is an argument separate from the eye color/canon argument.

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