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    How to improve Sonic 4?

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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 11:31 am

    So I've been reading the Sega forums for a while, especially the Sonic 4 Eps II board. All what I see is constant negativity (oh that thread) and they talk like the game ruined the classics to no end.

    I don't think it ever did that. Its still enjoyable and all, but people. Oh come on.

    How could you improve Sonic 4 so it should shut up the complains once and for all? Notice that I don't want replies like "Sonic 4 shouldn't exist" "this game sucks, it cannot be improved," etc. If so, go start a thread for yourself, there is a thread out there that discusses that.
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    Post by TrueBlue52 on August 11th 2012, 11:48 am

    Aside from poor reviews, my biggest problem with the game is that it wasn't available in stores.

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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 12:13 pm

    It would've been nice if we had the game fully boxed and retail, with a good looking manual instead of the one that comes inside both episodes.

    At the same time, it would've been nice if the PC version of both episodes had textures for each key on the keyboard. For instance, showing something like "S - Go to next act" instead of an orange button that is remapped to a key.

    The rolling and spindashing is a high priority fix. Other than that, I'm pretty fine with just running since there's too many boosters to kill off the enemies, though they'd be nice if they were like in Sonic 2, and you had to roll yourself to be safe.

    Oh, and smarter and harder homing attack chains. Like those non-Bubble chains in Sylvania Castle Act 3, or a chain where you have to move Sonic to continue the chain and not just mindlessly pressing the jump button over and over again.


    That's what I could think out at the moment.
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 12:42 pm

    1.Release it all at one time instead of in installments that are priced as full games

    2.Tails

    3.Make a game that ISN'T playing off Nostalgia and instead make a game entirely from scratch.

    4.that means a soundtrack that doesn't belong on Genesis

    5.Sonic 06 was at least trying
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    Post by Jmh on August 11th 2012, 3:39 pm

    Auflodern wrote:1.Release it all at one time instead of in installments that are priced as full games

    2.Tails

    3.Make a game that ISN'T playing off Nostalgia and instead make a game entirely from scratch.

    4.that means a soundtrack that doesn't belong on Genesis

    5.Sonic 06 was at least trying
    Add Amy, Knuckles, and classic physics and we're good.
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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 3:45 pm

    Jmh wrote:Add Amy, Knuckles, and classic physics and we're good.

    Heck, Amy is a risky step. Either people will complain about her, or what else they could do to make the series look bad to people?

    Amy should be the way she was in CD. Whether she's the modern one or classic one doesn't matter, as long as she acts like CD Amy, a damsel in distress that never did a thing to the plot other than Sonic running away from her when she opened her eyes at the end :D

    Oh and fixed physics to make the game not look bad at all.
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    Post by Azzy on August 11th 2012, 4:05 pm

    Characters like Amy, Knuckles and Tails being playable isn't such a bad thing, and if they're optional, then no-one can really complain about it.

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    Post by The Freedom Fighter on August 11th 2012, 4:31 pm

    Pooka wrote:
    Jmh wrote:Add Amy, Knuckles, and classic physics and we're good.

    Heck, Amy is a risky step. Either people will complain about her, or what else they could do to make the series look bad to people?

    Amy should be the way she was in CD. Whether she's the modern one or classic one doesn't matter, as long as she acts like CD Amy, a damsel in distress that never did a thing to the plot other than Sonic running away from her when she opened her eyes at the end :D
    Did you play as her in Sonic Advance?

    As for how to improve Sonic 4, there's a few methods:
    -Include Tails and Knuckles, and Metal Sonic as playable characters in all levels. Or any two characters, really. This will show the series is growing instead of shrinking.
    -Polish the graphics. They were rough and not enough effort were put into them. Considering the Sonic series is known for good graphics, they weren't as great as they could have been.
    -The music needs more work. It got repetitive at times.
    -The level design needs a lot of work. The focus on speed hurts the gameplay, and the bosses really slow down the action.
    -The story took a step back, arguably weaker than Sonic 1's.


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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 4:42 pm

    The Freedom Fighter wrote:Considering the Sonic series is known for good graphics

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    Post by The Freedom Fighter on August 11th 2012, 5:30 pm

    I know, I know, it's funny because it's true, but please try to make actual comments.


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    Post by Chaos_Overlord on August 11th 2012, 5:41 pm

    Fix the rolling physics, more levels and characters, bosses do not take forever to get started (this is less Ep. 1 and more Ep. 2).
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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 5:55 pm

    I played Amy a few days ago in Twinkle Park when I wondered how is White Park Zone Act 2's music speaks Twinkle Park. Also beat her levels in Advance after a game over, she's ultimately the hard difficulity setting, but if she were playable I'd think she'd do something that opens up a pass for the others to take. Not force you to play her in order to open a door or crash a plane to continue with the others, but explain why that path was open.

    There are people who complained over Amy, I want a game where complaints are very very rare.

    I find nothing wrong with the music, but for the sake of stopping complaints, why not use actual instruments?

    Also yeah.. A game with more than Sonic and Tails. And eventually, make the episodes lock on together to make Sonic 4, with unified graphics and physics, and story.
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    Post by TrueBlue52 on August 11th 2012, 6:00 pm

    I'm starting to think this game was meant primarily for mobile devices.
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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 8:02 pm

    TrueBlue52 wrote:I'm starting to think this game was meant primarily for mobile devices.

    Are you saying that's why you think Sonic 4 is episodic instead of one full game?

    Still, they CAN make a full game for the iPhone if that's their goal. They're great enough, they're Sega. They just need to do what Sonic Team did in the past, its called SONIC 3. This is what you should do, Dimps!
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 9:55 pm

    Here's an idea, how about Sonic Team takes the Engine from Sonic 06, finishes it, ups the graphics, makes a good story from scratch, and releases a game that isn't just saying:

    "Hey guys, I know Sonic hasn't been doing good, but remember the 90's? This game is all about the 90's and everything you loved from the original Sonic Games are in here! Fuck originality! You guys give us money for this shit! :D"
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    Post by Pooka on August 11th 2012, 9:57 pm

    No no no no... not that engine. Thanks for the joke though.
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    Post by DarkSamus117 on August 11th 2012, 11:19 pm

    First and foremost, I think the levels need some work, not only are they riddled with springs and speed boosters, but they're being fueled by nostalgia. I thought this was supposed to be a sequel?

    The physics need some work, while they were a bit more tolerable in Episode 2, just moving Sonic around felt stiff, and the rolling, while semi-reliable, still needs work.

    Now assuming they're gong to make an Episode 3 (don't be Valve Sega), the teamwork mechanic needs expanding. For one, don't shove it down our throats. In Episode 2 it was required to complete levels, rather than being another mean of traversing it. It also made the game too easy at times. Falling down a bottomless pit? lolnope, press X for insta-save. Make it something you have to EARN. I would like it so where you have a limited number of uses before it recharges, or collecting an item, SOMETHING so you can't just spam it.

    While this may only be my personal opinion, there needs to be an option to let you switch which character is in the lead, I hated only being able to play as Sonic, yet continuing the trend of Sola Sonica. Why can't I play as Tails? Now while you think it may be pointless, hear me out.

    I would like for there to be puzzle elements added in, where you switch between the characters to accomplish certain tasks within said puzzle, maybe even adding items only attainable through a certain character. It would be a nice change of pace (no pun intended) from the norm. They could maybe add in level-specific tasks like there are in Assassin's Creed, where it it sometimes asked that you kill a person with a certain weapon, or complete a mission within a certain time limit, completing a fight without taking damage, that sort of thing. I think it could easily fit into the franchise as a whole.

    So yea, those are my crackpot ideas/fixes.


    Last edited by DarkSamus117 on August 11th 2012, 11:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by NeoMetalSonic on August 11th 2012, 11:20 pm

    By not making Sonic 4
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 11:23 pm

    NeoMetalSonic wrote:By not making Sonic 4


    you clever bastard
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    But honestly, at the very least they should be considering new ideas, trying to make sonic work in a 3d plane AND have platforming

    Most games today can be solved by holding up and B, at least until you get to the 2d parts where the game suddenly realizes it's a game and needs to start being challenging.

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    Post by DarkSamus117 on August 11th 2012, 11:26 pm

    Auflodern wrote:
    NeoMetalSonic wrote:By not making Sonic 4


    you clever bastard
    How to improve Sonic 4? Ap6fl

    But honestly, at the very least they should be considering new ideas, trying to make sonic work in a 3d plane AND have platforming

    Most games today can be solved by holding up and B, at least until you get to the 2d parts where the game suddenly realizes it's a game and needs to start being challenging.


    No attention to my post? *cries*
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 11:27 pm

    DarkSamus117 wrote:No attention to my post? *cries*

    EDIT:
    Ok, let's break your post down:


    First and foremost, I think the levels need some work, not only are they riddled with springs and speed boosters, but they're being fueled by nostalgia. I thought this was supposed to be a sequel?

    What I've been saying this entire time, good work underling!

    The physics need some work, while they were a bit more tolerable in Episode 2, just moving Sonic around felt stiff, and the rolling, while semi-reliable, still needs work.

    alright, but who's going to just stop in the middle of a loop or on the side of a wall? I know what you're saying but jeez, stop nitpicking

    Now assuming they're gong to make an Episode 3 (don't be Valve Sega), the teamwork mechanic needs expanding. For one, don't shove it down our throats. In Episode 2 it was required to complete levels, rather than being another mean of traversing it. It also made the game too easy at times. Falling down a bottomless pit? lolnope, press X for insta-save. Make it something you have to EARN. I would like it so where you have a limited number of uses before it recharges, or collecting an item, SOMETHING so you can't just spam it.

    lol autosave, and yes, allow for multiple styles of play, don't single one and make that your only playstyle.

    While this may only be my personal opinion, there needs to be an option to let you switch which character is in the lead, I hated only being able to play as Sonic, yet continuing the trend of Sola Sonica. Why can't I play as Tails? Now while you think it may be pointless, hear me out.

    I would like for there to be puzzle elements added in, where you switch between the characters to accomplish certain tasks within said puzzle, maybe even adding items only attainable through a certain character. It would be a nice change of pace (no pun intended) from the norm. They could maybe add in level-specific tasks like there are in Assassin's Creed, where it it sometimes asked that you kill a person with a certain weapon, or complete a mission within a certain time limit, completing a fight without taking damage, that sort of thing. I think it could easily fit into the franchise as a whole.

    SONIC HEROES! SONIC HEROES!


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    Post by DarkSamus117 on August 11th 2012, 11:32 pm

    Auflodern wrote:
    DarkSamus117 wrote:No attention to my post? *cries*

    Tl;dr

    To sum it up:

    >Switching which character is in the lead

    >Puzzle elements

    >Making it so you can't spam the teamwork mechanic

    >Making the teamwork mechanic another means of traversing the level as opposed to a requirement

    >Better level design

    >Level specific challenges

    >More original levels

    >Better physics
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 11:34 pm

    Yep, I made a placeholder comment while making a real reply hoping you wouldn't be back in time.
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    Post by DarkSamus117 on August 11th 2012, 11:42 pm

    Auflodern wrote:Yep, I made a placeholder comment while making a real reply hoping you wouldn't be back in time.

    Glad you understood, but how was I nitpicking when regarding the physics? I just want Sonic loosened up a bit, and the rolling fixed to the point where the rolling is actually effective.

    Not semi-effective, effective. The one in Episode 2 doesn't get you much speed.
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    Post by Auflodern on August 11th 2012, 11:48 pm

    DarkSamus117 wrote:
    Auflodern wrote:Yep, I made a placeholder comment while making a real reply hoping you wouldn't be back in time.

    Glad you understood, but how was I nitpicking when regarding the physics? I just want Sonic loosened up a bit, and the rolling fixed to the point where the rolling is actually effective.

    Not semi-effective, effective. The one in Episode 2 doesn't get you much speed.

    When you're roleplaying as "le furstest thing alerve" You probably aren't going to be stopping on a hillside out of nowhere.

    also the spindash in any of the original games didn't give you much of a speedboost.

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