The ancient lands.


3 posters

    Chaos Control

    Zez
    Zez

    Chaos Control VOZLn


    Chaos Control Blackr10Chaos Control Medalw11Chaos Control Zigzag10Chaos Control Medal13

      : Male
     Rep24

     Posts: : 8707

    Chaos Control Empty Chaos Control

    Post by Zez May 7th 2009, 8:42 am

    Okay, this may be a little bit of a nerdy fanboyish thing (ok it is totally...anyway), but it has been driving me nuts that some fans think that Chaos Control does not canonically need a Chaos Emerald (or a suitable substitute) when there is so much evidence that it does.



    Profiles in manuals and online nearly always mention a Chaos Emerald with Chaos Control:

    "He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds" - Sonic Channel

    "Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..." - Sonic Rivals minisite (the American version is gone but the European version is still up)

    "Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds" - Sonic Adventure 2 manual (the Sonic Heroes manual says something very similar, possibly others also)



    Most importantly, spoken words and actions in cutscenes almost all agree on this:

    "It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp" - Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2

    "It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake." - Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2

    "With a Chaos Emerald, I control time and space" - Shadow in Sonic 2006



    Fans who say that Chaos Control can be used without an Emerald tend to point at Shadow's game where Black Doom flees with the Emeralds and Sonic Battle where Shadow's Emerald is given to Emerl as the best evidence for their point. However, it has been shown time and again that one does not need to be physically holding any Emeralds to use their power:

    In Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos drained the negative energy from the Emeralds as they orbited his head

    In Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 2006, multiple Super forms exist at one time

    In Shadow's game, Black Doom warps the Black Comet down to earth with Chaos Control without physically touching any Emeralds (and after just explaining that he needed all seven to perform such a powerful warp)

    Sonic X supports this in episodes 46: Sonic Vs Shadow and 77: Cosmo's Work (in fact in 46's Super Transformation, a Meterex is holding 2 of the Emeralds)

    So looking at it with that in mind, since Black Doom only floated away with the Emeralds right at the end of the cutscene before Final Way, it likely suggests he was never far away during the level.

    Also Emerl (and the 7 Emeralds) were never far from Shadow either. (Although it was never really explained what he needed it for, a possible explaination for what Shadow meant when he said he no longer needed it was he no longer weakened and in need of a crutch for his earlier injury)



    Mostly instances in gameplay where Shadow used Chaos Control or a related power without an Emerald can be dismissed as Sonic Team not wanting to compromise the gameplay for the sake of the story (like the mysterious 8th Chaos Emerald in Team Dark's team blast in Sonic Heroes). Although one final instance is Shadow's opening cutscene in Sonic 2006, where he disappears in light after talking to GUN and no Emerald or other power source is around. But that game was messy enough (Silver's speed up anyone?) to consider the possibly of a mess up by the people Sonic Team hired to make the CG movies for the game.
    The Freedom Fighter
    The Freedom Fighter

    Chaos Control ZtZYh


    Chaos Control Blackr10Chaos Control Medalw11Chaos Control Zigzag10Chaos Control White10Chaos Control Medal13Chaos Control 2nio02t

      : Male
     Rep76

    Age: : 35
     Posts: : 5812

    Chaos Control Empty Re: Chaos Control

    Post by The Freedom Fighter May 7th 2009, 3:41 pm

    Zezima wrote:Okay, this may be a little bit of a nerdy fanboyish thing (ok it is totally...anyway), but it has been driving me nuts that some fans think that Chaos Control does not canonically need a Chaos Emerald (or a suitable substitute) when there is so much evidence that it does.
    But there is evidence that it doesn't.
    Zezima wrote:Profiles in manuals and online nearly always mention a Chaos Emerald with Chaos Control:
    So? Can I still call Amy Princess Sally then?
    Zezima wrote:"He is given the ability of Chaos Control to distort time and space using the Chaos Emeralds" - Sonic Channel
    Yes, but does not say he needs it.
    Zezima wrote:"Possessing the power to use Chaos Emeralds to perform Chaos Control..." - Sonic Rivals minisite (the American version is gone but the European version is still up)
    Yes, but does not say he needs it.
    Zezima wrote:"Shadow has a special ability called 'Chaos Control' which allows him to warp time and space using Chaos Emeralds" - Sonic Adventure 2 manual (the Sonic Heroes manual says something very similar, possibly others also)
    Before he learned the ability.
    Zezima wrote:Most importantly, spoken words and actions in cutscenes almost all agree on this:
    Oh really?
    Zezima wrote:"It's not his speed, he must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp" - Sonic in Sonic Adventure 2
    Before he learned the ability.
    Zezima wrote:"It was a Chaos Emerald, wasn't it? But... there's no way you could have activated the Chaos Control... using an Emerald that's fake." - Shadow in Sonic Adventure 2
    Before he learned the ability.
    Zezima wrote:"With a Chaos Emerald, I control time and space" - Shadow in Sonic 2006
    Yes, but does not say he needs it.
    Zezima wrote:Fans who say that Chaos Control can be used without an Emerald tend to point at Shadow's game where Black Doom flees with the Emeralds and Sonic Battle where Shadow's Emerald is given to Emerl as the best evidence for their point. However, it has been shown time and again that one does not need to be physically holding any Emeralds to use their power:
    Yes, and as such can give an even more interesting theory: perhaps the distance between the person and the emerald can be increased, and as such, he is still near the emerald, but not touching it. Although I haven't decided if I agree with this theory yet.
    Zezima wrote:In Sonic Adventure, Perfect Chaos drained the negative energy from the Emeralds as they orbited his head
    Right.
    Zezima wrote:In Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, and Sonic 2006, multiple Super forms exist at one time
    With SA2, the power was used together, bringing about the theory that Sonic no longer needs the full power of the emeralds to go super, but that's another story I guess.
    With SH and SNG, he gave the power to them.
    Zezima wrote:In Shadow's game, Black Doom warps the Black Comet down to earth with Chaos Control without physically touching any Emeralds (and after just explaining that he needed all seven to perform such a powerful warp)
    Because he's using the emeralds already to be super. Super Shadow can do CC; we've seen it before.
    Zezima wrote:Sonic X supports this in episodes 46: Sonic Vs Shadow and 77: Cosmo's Work (in fact in 46's Super Transformation, a Meterex is holding 2 of the Emeralds)
    I haven't seen those in ages, but they aren't exactly canon with the games, so we can't confirm how influential they are to the games.
    Zezima wrote:So looking at it with that in mind, since Black Doom only floated away with the Emeralds right at the end of the cutscene before Final Way, it likely suggests he was never far away during the level.
    I say he was. He's not tired, nor is he seen at all in any large areas or straightaways, which means, unless my theory of expanding distance is true, your theory can't be.
    Zezima wrote:Also Emerl (and the 7 Emeralds) were never far from Shadow either. (Although it was never really explained what he needed it for, a possible explaination for what Shadow meant when he said he no longer needed it was he no longer weakened and in need of a crutch for his earlier injury)
    No, he healed early on, if I remember right. Shadow also said he didn't need it, so it would make him lying if he returned it, which I pretty sure he wouldn't do.
    Zezima wrote:Mostly instances in gameplay where Shadow used Chaos Control or a related power without an Emerald can be dismissed as Sonic Team not wanting to compromise the gameplay for the sake of the story (like the mysterious 8th Chaos Emerald in Team Dark's team blast in Sonic Heroes).
    Luckily, with the theory he no longer needs it, this isn't a problem.
    Zezima wrote:Although one final instance is Shadow's opening cutscene in Sonic 2006, where he disappears in light after talking to GUN and no Emerald or other power source is around. But that game was messy enough (Silver's speed up anyone?) to consider the possibly of a mess up by the people Sonic Team hired to make the CG movies for the game.
    Maybe, but unlikely. I don't know what you mean by Silver's speed up, but as far as I can tell, there may be only three plotholes in that game (and none have to do with time travel), and as such it doesn't seem likely that is one of them.
    Crystal Chaotix 3
    Crystal Chaotix 3

    Chaos Control VOZLn


    Chaos Control Blackr10Chaos Control Medalw11Chaos Control Medalg10Chaos Control White10Chaos Control Medal13

      : Male
     Rep17

    Age: : 31
     Posts: : 2103

    Chaos Control Empty Re: Chaos Control

    Post by Crystal Chaotix 3 May 7th 2009, 3:45 pm

    I agree with Freedom Fighter.

    I've still wondered how Shadow pulled off a chaos control in Next-gen without one if it were true that he needed one to do so.

    Sponsored content


    Chaos Control Empty Re: Chaos Control

    Post by Sponsored content