As of today, how would you grade the President's performance in handling and dealing with country's numerous difficulties?
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Boom
Shadow122
Army
Roterblitz
Zez
9 posters
What do you think of Barack Obama?
Zez
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Posts: : 8707
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
Well, as soon as he came into office, he inherited the worst situation America's had since the Great Depression, anyone in his position will have to make tough decisions that will upset many people, I just think that needs to be taken into consideration.
Right off the bat, within minutes of taking oath, he immediately corrected several policies of the Bush Presidency: suspended Bush's last minute regulations until they are reviewed, froze the salaries of all White House staff members making over $100,000, and put more restrictions on lobbyist.
In that same week, he ordered the closure of Guantanamo Bay, prohibition of torture, and fair trial or case review of all detainees. While the Stimulus Bill is still being questioned, his economic policies are far less elitist than Bush's, and ethically, in his first week, he already done better than the entirety of both of Bush's terms.
Right off the bat, within minutes of taking oath, he immediately corrected several policies of the Bush Presidency: suspended Bush's last minute regulations until they are reviewed, froze the salaries of all White House staff members making over $100,000, and put more restrictions on lobbyist.
In that same week, he ordered the closure of Guantanamo Bay, prohibition of torture, and fair trial or case review of all detainees. While the Stimulus Bill is still being questioned, his economic policies are far less elitist than Bush's, and ethically, in his first week, he already done better than the entirety of both of Bush's terms.
Army
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Age: : 29
Posts: : 2110
He's better then Bush that's for sure.
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
An 8 year vacancy would have been better than Bush.Army the Hedgehog wrote:He's better then Bush that's for sure.
Zez
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Posts: : 8707
Roterblitz, please enlighten me.. how was shutting down Gitmo a positive action?
Guest- Guest
(talking about obama)Zezima wrote:Roterblitz, please enlighten me.. how was shutting down Gitmo a positive action?
how is sending the USA into bankruptcy for stupid things a good action?
Shadow122
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Age: : 28
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Army the Hedgehog wrote:He's better then Bush that's for sure.
Boom
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Age: : 29
Posts: : 654
Before I answer, are you with the secret service?
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
People are being sent there with no trial, held there indefinitely without Constitutional rights, and being tortured. Those are crimes against humanity, and that's just counting what we know about so far.Zezima wrote:Roterblitz, please enlighten me.. how was shutting down Gitmo a positive action?
Oh, and it's not like about to spring all the terrorists free, they're only being given the rights of the accused that all human beings are supposed to have. The innocent are barely being compensated for what Bush has done to them, and the guilty will simply be sent to jails in American or their home country. We'll still be safe from them, only we'll know they actually belong there and they won't be treated sub-humanly.
Ask Bush.joeoflula wrote:how is sending the USA into bankruptcy for stupid things a good action?
So far, Obama hasn't gotten us into an unnecessary, unjustified, and poorly planned war that costs us $12,000,000,000 every month, deliver a $700,000,000,000 taxpayer-funded bailout to the massive corporations that helped put us in the deficit in the first place, putting us the largest debt of any country in history, which is still rising so fast I can't even give you an estimate, and Obama didn't start out during an economic surplus.
Zez
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Posts: : 8707
Roterblitz wrote:People are being sent there with no trial, held there indefinitely without Constitutional rights, and being tortured. Those are crimes against humanity, and that's just counting what we know about so far.Zezima wrote:Roterblitz, please enlighten me.. how was shutting down Gitmo a positive action?
Oh, and it's not like about to spring all the terrorists free, they're only being given the rights of the accused that all human beings are supposed to have. The innocent are barely being compensated for what Bush has done to them, and the guilty will simply be sent to jails in American or their home country. We'll still be safe from them, only we'll know they actually belong there and they won't be treated sub-humanly.
Whoa, here!
1.- No trial? Proof?
2.- Against Humanity? Should be considered when dealing with animals, also.
3.- Innocent, Sub human? Who is innocent?
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
1. The Bush administration decided that people suspected of being "enemy combatants" were not entitled to any of the protections of the Geneva Convention, despite a Supreme Court ruling stating otherwise, meaning the military has the right to detain them indefinitely without the right to Habius Corpus, among other things.Zezima wrote:1.- No trial? Proof?
2.- Against Humanity? Should be considered when dealing with animals, also.
3.- Innocent, Sub human? Who is innocent?
2. Denial of human rights and torture are crimes against humanity. The ethical treatment of animals is also a very important issue, but that's not what we're talking about right now.
3. We don't know, all "records" about their "trials" were kept hidden from the public.
Veemon
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Age: : 35
Posts: : 69
I think it's too early to judge right yet, but I have my hopes for him.
It was annoying in the last speech how they would interrupt him to clap every few seconds (Seemed like it). Let the President talk, damn it. :O:
It was annoying in the last speech how they would interrupt him to clap every few seconds (Seemed like it). Let the President talk, damn it. :O:
Plix- : 13
Posts: : 2080
Roterblitz wrote:1. The Bush administration decided that people suspected of being "enemy combatants" were not entitled to any of the protections of the Geneva Convention, despite a Supreme Court ruling stating otherwise, meaning the military has the right to detain them indefinitely without the right to Habius Corpus, among other things.Zezima wrote:1.- No trial? Proof?
2.- Against Humanity? Should be considered when dealing with animals, also.
3.- Innocent, Sub human? Who is innocent?
2. Denial of human rights and torture are crimes against humanity. The ethical treatment of animals is also a very important issue, but that's not what we're talking about right now.
3. We don't know, all "records" about their "trials" were kept hidden from the public.
It's not as black and white as that. Newsflash: terrorists are out there. We don't just randomly grab middle easterners and throw them into a prsion and torture them for the fun of it. These people have all done something that has been suspiscious or threatening. Are you suggesting that instead of stopping an imminent terrorist attack, for example, we wait until we have conclusive evidence so we can give them a fair trial in a public court? These "enemy combatants" don't work like that, they don't work by our sissy human rights laws. Their goal is to take life so they may die for their cause. Giving them their fair and unalienable rights is out of the question, and something people should really open their eyes into. Would you really convict Jack Bauer or any real life soldier in his position?
On the other hand, I know racism and racial profiling does exist, so suspiscion should be a cause for some innocent questions. If something isn't right, then move on to more extreme techniques.
Zez
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Posts: : 8707
Point is given to SupaSEGA.
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
I know you're exaggerating my claims in order to make a point, but even things as absurd as that have happened, there have been reports of people being detained without any legitimately threatening reasons, people who are not physically capable of being a threat, and even people the military themselves have actually admitted were completely innocent and arrested for unfounded reasons yet continue to hold captive.SupaSEGA wrote:We don't just randomly grab middle easterners and throw them into a prsion and torture them for the fun of it. These people have all done something that has been suspiscious or threatening.
There's a difference between making a quick decision when it's necessary and holding people in secret for years, hiding all records of their detainment, and torturing them without a shred of solid evidence.SupaSEGA wrote:Are you suggesting that instead of stopping an imminent terrorist attack, for example, we wait until we have conclusive evidence so we can give them a fair trial in a public court?
That's why we're supposed to be the "good guys", every time we've done something inhumane to them (and got caught), the consequences far outweighed the results.SupaSEGA wrote:These "enemy combatants" don't work like that, they don't work by our sissy human rights laws.
Jack Bauer lives in a magical world where torture always works, always gets accurate results, and always gets them fast. We don't live in the same world as Jack Bauer, although in 2006, a few of our soldiers didn't seem to understand that, naturally, they weren't quite as successful as our rugged anti-hero.SupaSEGA wrote:Their goal is to take life so they may die for their cause. Giving them their fair and unalienable rights is out of the question, and something people should really open their eyes into. Would you really convict Jack Bauer or any real life soldier in his position?
Plix- : 13
Posts: : 2080
Jack doesn't always get his way, but that's a another discussion entirely. :D
I do know that some atrocities have been committed, but I feel that if there is reasonable doubt that somebody may not be an innocent person, then extreme tactics may need to be used. Like I said, they don't work by our laws, and while looking good in the eyes of the world is a good thing, it should be second to national secuity and human life.
I do know that some atrocities have been committed, but I feel that if there is reasonable doubt that somebody may not be an innocent person, then extreme tactics may need to be used. Like I said, they don't work by our laws, and while looking good in the eyes of the world is a good thing, it should be second to national secuity and human life.
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
It was still portrayed in a far more positive and effective light than it should have, if I recall, at one point even a Supreme Court Justice sided with him. His unrealistically successful tortures only started being subverted in later seasons, after complaints.SupaSEGA wrote:Jack doesn't always get his way, but that's a another discussion entirely.
Like I said, decisive action in an urgent situation can absolutely be justified, but no one would be complaining if that was all they were doing.SupaSEGA wrote:I do know that some atrocities have been committed, but I feel that if there is reasonable doubt that somebody may not be an innocent person, then extreme tactics may need to be used.
Fighting inhumanity with inhumanity will naturally just lead to more inhumanity, and not just from their side. And it's not just about whether or not it's "ethical" to use the magical, foolproof Jack Bauer interrogationSupaSEGA wrote:Like I said, they don't work by our laws, and while looking good in the eyes of the world is a good thing, it should be second to national secuity and human life.
, it's just plain not as effective as (the early seasons of) 24 make it out to be. It can take a long time, they're extremely likely to lie just to end the torture, and there's no way to tell if they lied until it's too late. All in all, history has proven that the use of torture "for good" simply doesn't work, the consequences outweigh its usefulness, there's a reason it's illegal even against actual prisoners of war.
Plix- : 13
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Meh, I disagree. I say fight fire with fire, but then again, we don't live in a perfect world. And there were several times when Jack's tortring didn't work, all thrugout the series.
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
As Mahatma Gandhi once said, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".SupaSEGA wrote:Meh, I disagree. I say fight fire with fire, but then again, we don't live in a perfect world. And there were several times when Jack's tortring didn't work, all thrugout the series.
To commit injustice and cruelty to the extent that we have won't just bring counter-aggression and bad publicity, it desensitizes us to an evil far worse than what we're fighting against, the Dark Side is a slippery slope.
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Posts: : 2080
Far evil than what terrorists are committing? I don't think anything shy of the Holocaust and Stalin's mass murder can be compared to the atrocities of the September 11th attacks, at least not in modern history. Life was lost, and if you look deep into it, you can see people jumping from the very top floors of the towers before the collapse. How bad must it have been up there for one to hurl themselves off a 100 odd story building to freefall to their death? And people always talk about the people burning alive, the dreadful states of the murdered, the people who got crushed/impaled, etc.
Torture, in many cases, can stop and things can eventually go back to normal. Lost life, however, cannot. If one worthless extremist dies at the hands of torture and 1 innocnet life is saved, that's a win in my eyes.
Torture, in many cases, can stop and things can eventually go back to normal. Lost life, however, cannot. If one worthless extremist dies at the hands of torture and 1 innocnet life is saved, that's a win in my eyes.
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
Then you need to do a lot more research.SupaSEGA wrote:Far evil than what terrorists are committing? I don't think anything shy of the Holocaust and Stalin's mass murder can be compared to the atrocities of the September 11th attacks, at least not in modern history.
Plix- : 13
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Ha, are you serious?
That's absurd. What have American troops done that is worse than the three things I have just mentioned?
That's absurd. What have American troops done that is worse than the three things I have just mentioned?
Roterblitz
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Age: : 33
Posts: : 1117
I meant there were things other than the Holocaust and Stalin's genocide that were worse than 9/11.SupaSEGA wrote:That's absurd. What have American troops done that is worse than the three things I have just mentioned?
Plix- : 13
Posts: : 2080
Oh yeah, of course, sorry if I came off wrong.
I know our country is far from perfect, and I know of a lot of the stuff weve done in South Korea, Grenada, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.
But when you look at that stuff, and compare it to 9/11, it was just terrible. It's hard to explain, I don't know. But it was on our soil, and we were not in war, and they had really no reason to attack us besides the crazy extremist views. bin Laden even laughed about it and was happy that the towers fell, something he didn't expect them to do.
I know our country is far from perfect, and I know of a lot of the stuff weve done in South Korea, Grenada, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.
But when you look at that stuff, and compare it to 9/11, it was just terrible. It's hard to explain, I don't know. But it was on our soil, and we were not in war, and they had really no reason to attack us besides the crazy extremist views. bin Laden even laughed about it and was happy that the towers fell, something he didn't expect them to do.
The Freedom Fighter
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Age: : 35
Posts: : 5812
...Anyway, Obama seems okay I suppose. He's certainly been doing his fair share of good.
