Sonic: Since when did it become a love story?

supersonic703 wrote:Sometimes though people have to make sacrifices within the economic state. If it sells, they'll use it. Personally, though, some of the relationships on the comic I tend to disagree with, but hey its my own.

And what would you expect from two best friends after one girl? (Not saying human tendency obviously but you know where I'm getting at...)

Well, they didn't really have to make it so two best friends were after one girl you know?

To me, it kinda adds shock and disbelief. Two best friends that everyone knows so well, that nothing could really tear the bond apart.
Then this happens, and everyone goes "What the? What's happening to those two? They're best friends!" kind of thing...
Now they wonder what's gonna happen next, which may happen in the next issue, which makes them want to buy that next issue to see if it was resolved or not.

supersonic703 wrote:To me, it kinda adds shock and disbelief. Two best friends that everyone knows so well, that nothing could really tear the bond apart.
Then this happens, and everyone goes "What the? What's happening to those two? They're best friends!" kind of thing...
Now they wonder what's gonna happen next, which may happen in the next issue, which makes them want to buy that next issue to see if it was resolved or not.

I love that concept as well. But like I said, their fight didn't really have to happen because of a girl. That's pretty much an unspirited way for them to fight as it could easily be resolved as compared to a ploy point where Tails turned traitor or something like that.

Well, Tails wouldn't go traitor, and, if we're speaking of the same fight, it was resolved in like two issues.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Well, Tails wouldn't go traitor, and, if we're speaking of the same fight, it was resolved in like two issues.

Anyone could go traitor. It could happen with a well thought out insentive and motivation to do so. I'm not talking about the naive generic "I'm going to the dark-side" plot that people usually like to associate this with for some reason.

And that's what I mean about it being resolved easily. 2 issues isn't a lot.

I don't see Tails going traitor though. Even if Sonic messed up bad, even if Tails was brainwashed (which has happened), Tails wouldn't really go traitor (and brainwashing doesn't count, since he didn't freely make the choice).

The Freedom Fighter wrote:I don't see Tails going traitor though. Even if Sonic messed up bad, even if Tails was brainwashed (which has happened), Tails wouldn't really go traitor (and brainwashing doesn't count, since he didn't freely make the choice).

Then you're not looking at it the way I am.

Well then give me your eyes so I can see how. Or just tell me how you're looking at it.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Well then give me your eyes so I can see how. Or just tell me how you're looking at it.

It's generally a slow manipulating process. Tails' views on what's good and what's bad remain the same however they get twisted by some new development that could either leave him confused or scared. Loop holes and manipulated action start to get in the way and suddenly the actions of the hero seem to be in question. When realizing the justice you're apart of is currupt one usually tends to leave it and make a true name for their own justice themselves.

That's when their views start to go haywire and soon you don't know what's right and what's wrong. Being put in a situation where you and your best friend both wish to do good but the other wishes to do it differently and in a way that you wouldn't find suitable could contribute quite a bit.

Eventually Tails could get so worked up about doing what he believes is right that he's now opposing his friends and taking it too far when it comes to ambition. After a while his new sense of justice could become the one related to evil and eventually the goal to reach any kind of justice at all will be lost and forgotten.

An example would be Tails witnessing something that leads him to believe the only way to ensure that everyone is safe and justice is served all their enemies or opposers would have to be flat out killed. (It's a bit extreme but I'm not readily prepared so...). Of course the others wouldn't want that to be the only solution and a disagreement would take place. There'd have to be a good amount of mind manipulation from someone who were actually evil to help this process though as Tails himself probably wouldn't go all out in believing something like this by himself all of a sudden.

Yeah, see, I had forseen that already. But as I said, I don't see Tails losing his beliefs of right and wrong or getting them twisted to the point he becomes a traitor seems unlikely to me. Tails could be tempted, but he usually knows what is the right thing to do in the end of it all.

And what if what he thinks the right thing at the end of it isn't exactly right? I'm trying to be more complicated then that. Realistically, something like this could happen to pretty much anyone. And of course Tails wouldn't go about this alone. People play an important part within their emotions.

It's not just belief twisting after all. It all depends on what the belief is and how it's executed. No one's really immune to it. Nobody really forsees it or expects it when around the nicest most moral person around and yet stuff like this happens in real life so often.

In my point of view, I'd find it unrealistic for there not to be a way for his demeanor to be altered in some way, especially with the kind of life he seems to live.

Of course, it actually happening would be an extremely unlikely and hard thing to pull off due to the way Tails is. It seems downright impossible for a person like Sonic. But there's always a tiny little thing within them that can be played upon to reach that change of heart. Finding Tails' is something that can't be done all that easily (which is probably why not many have been able to do it all that well in their fanfiction :P ).

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:And what if what he thinks the right thing at the end of it isn't exactly right? I'm trying to be more complicated then that. Realistically, something like this could happen to pretty much anyone. And of course Tails wouldn't go about this alone. People play an important part within their emotions.

But I don't see his thinking ever differing from the definition of right, or at least the right he's learned. And sure it could happen to anyone, but I don't see it happening to Tails. He isn't that swayable.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:It's not just belief twisting after all. It all depends on what the belief is and how it's executed. No one's really immune to it. Nobody really forsees it or expects it when around the nicest most moral person around and yet stuff like this happens in real life so often.

And as I said, he could be shooken up, but I don't see him going rogue. The others around him might, but he'd still have his perceptions of right and wrong. I don't see them changing.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:In my point of view, I'd find it unrealistic for there not to be a way for his demeanor to be altered in some way, especially with the kind of life he seems to live.

I don't see how. He was raised well enough, and spends most of his time hanging out with the planet's world renowned hero. He's even been wanted by the government, despite his age. But he still had the same morals and beliefs. I personally believe Tails is strong enough and smart enough not to let these change.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:Of course, it actually happening would be an extremely unlikely and hard thing to pull off due to the way Tails is. It seems downright impossible for a person like Sonic. But there's always a tiny little thing within them that can be played upon to reach that change of heart. Finding Tails' is something that can't be done all that easily (which is probably why not many have been able to do it all that well in their fanfiction :P ).

And see, even you admit it's unlikeliness. I can't see Tails doing it, not because it's hard to pull off, but because he's a stronger person in body and mind. He's seen genocide, he's been hunted by the government, he's faced terrorists and monsters and machine menaces, he even thought he saw his best friend die because of his actions, and yet he's kept his morals straight on.
Maybe if Tails went insane, he might become a traitor, but then he wouldn't be in his right mind anyway.

Sonic became about love when I told it to.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:And what if what he thinks the right thing at the end of it isn't exactly right? I'm trying to be more complicated then that. Realistically, something like this could happen to pretty much anyone. And of course Tails wouldn't go about this alone. People play an important part within their emotions.

But I don't see his thinking ever differing from the definition of right, or at least the right he's learned. And sure it could happen to anyone, but I don't see it happening to Tails. He isn't that swayable.

I said it woul;dn't be easy didn't I? And of course you don't see it happening to Tails. The way he is it seems down right impossible but it isn't. It can happen to him if the people who make the story choose to make it so Tails found that nitch and acted upon it. There is a way to do it.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:It's not just belief twisting after all. It all depends on what the belief is and how it's executed. No one's really immune to it. Nobody really forsees it or expects it when around the nicest most moral person around and yet stuff like this happens in real life so often.

And as I said, he could be shooken up, but I don't see him going rogue. The others around him might, but he'd still have his perceptions of right and wrong. I don't see them changing. [/quote]

Pretty much the same thing you said before. You can't see it because of what's been presented to you and everyone else.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:In my point of view, I'd find it unrealistic for there not to be a way for his demeanor to be altered in some way, especially with the kind of life he seems to live.

I don't see how. He was raised well enough, and spends most of his time hanging out with the planet's world renowned hero. He's even been wanted by the government, despite his age. But he still had the same morals and beliefs. I personally believe Tails is strong enough and smart enough not to let these change.[/quote]

I'm not saying it has anything to do with his life being bad. It's just the way his life is. A kid hios age in the constant heat of battle is pretty uncommon after all. And it doesn't matter how strong or smart he is, he's subjectable to it as much as anyone else is. There's plenty of factors to consider as well. His age, his emotions, pand personal insight. Unless he were all powerful and all knowing in every way shape or form then I would think it wouldn't be possible.

Crystal Chaotix 3 wrote:Of course, it actually happening would be an extremely unlikely and hard thing to pull off due to the way Tails is. It seems downright impossible for a person like Sonic. But there's always a tiny little thing within them that can be played upon to reach that change of heart. Finding Tails' is something that can't be done all that easily (which is probably why not many have been able to do it all that well in their fanfiction :P ).

And see, even you admit it's unlikeliness. I can't see Tails doing it, not because it's hard to pull off, but because he's a stronger person in body and mind. He's seen genocide, he's been hunted by the government, he's faced terrorists and monsters and machine menaces, he even thought he saw his best friend die because of his actions, and yet he's kept his morals straight on.
Maybe if Tails went insane, he might become a traitor, but then he wouldn't be in his right mind anyway.[/quote]

Why consider Tails going insane then? And besides, if all that's true then there's clearly a window of oppurtunity bigger then I originally thought. Pulling it off correctly depends on how well it's done and what time they choose to act upon it. And like I said before other people effect it as well. The main reason nobody sees it happening in real life is due to the story writers neglegence to attempt it because of the one-sided persona Tails has. I believe that in turn leads people to believe it couldn't happen in Sonic's real life, because of what's been presented to them instead of what real emotions and factors about them are like. Taking those and acting upon them is even harder as well.

It's strange how this went down. Tails originally went out with who he thought was a real Fiona but it turned out that it wasn't the real Fiona. Personally I don't know what the deal is with any story, fan made or officially made, of Tails, love angles, and the sudden tragic turn of events that lead to his girlfriends either being killed or having them turn on him. I don't get it. I don't see why that's the only appealing thing to give Tails just so he could have something to do. It bugs me a great deal that when he looks for happiness, it gets ripped away from him at the last possible minute in almost a repetitive, comical way to some. Again, that's not how you want one of your staple characters to look if they're representing your franchise.

We have to understand that Archie can come up with just about any storyline that looks appealing to them, and more often than not, they just seem to choose love stories. It happens all the time after something big happens. It will most likely go back to a love angle.

Does Tails deserve better? Of course he does, but he is being portrayed as this character that always gets caught in the most humiliating, heartbreaking, and embarrassing situations. In issues 176-179 he was at the end of his rope with Sonic with the Fiona issue, and he finally came to blows with him, and then it ended in a somewhat anti-climatic way. They settled everything because Sonic talked his way out of it again, even though we read previously that Tails told Sonic "You're not talking your way out of this one!" Oh, the irony. Archie was intending to portray Tails to be more of the antagonist than Sonic was.

Tails never lost his views of what was right and wrong. He knows the difference. Any of you could get worked up if you end up seeing someone who is supposed to be your big brother figure, and then you see him going out with your love interest. Consider the other story where Amadeus, Tails' father, was locked up in prison because of the ongoing struggles to talk with Elias. That just adds fuel to the fire because Sonic and Tails were at opposing sides of the fence with that issue.

As for the idea of him maybe defecting from the Freedom Fighters; that's a futile effort. I'm sure that Archie does like to tease of that idea, to have Tails just drop everything that he and Sonic helped build and turn on his friend, but that's never going to happen. I can't see it. When the justice system is corrupt, and the form of justice that you know to be true and genuine isn't being upheld, then there's no problem with you opposing the system, because it does not benefit the people. That calls for a new system to be implemented. The Freedom Fighters stand for what is right, and they are supposed to uphold the interests of the people. Tails is for the people. Tails isn't willingly going to betray his friends in an act of rage or insanity because he can control himself. He's a bright fox, after all.

codeorange wrote: It's strange how this went down. Tails originally went out with who he thought was a real Fiona but it turned out that it wasn't the real Fiona. Personally I don't know what the deal is with any story, fan made or officially made, of Tails, love angles, and the sudden tragic turn of events that lead to his girlfriends either being killed or having them turn on him. I don't get it. I don't see why that's the only appealing thing to give Tails just so he could have something to do. It bugs me a great deal that when he looks for happiness, it gets ripped away from him at the last possible minute in almost a repetitive, comical way to some. Again, that's not how you want one of your staple characters to look if they're representing you franchise.

I've noticed that too. I however happen to like it for some odd reason. It's got nothing to do with Tails, it's just that kind of stuff that I like... weird...

codeorange wrote: We have to understand that Archie can come up with just about any storyline that looks appealing to them, and more often than not, they just seem to choose love stories. It happens all the time after something big happens. It will most likely go back to a love angle.

Probably...

codeorange wrote: Does Tails deserve better? Of course he does, but he is being portrayed as this character that always gets caught in the most humiliating, heartbreaking, and embrrassing situations. In issues 176-179 he was at the end of his rope with Sonic with the Fiona issue, and he finally came to blows with him, and then it ended in a somewhat anti-climatic way. They settled everything becase Sonic talked his way out of it again, even though we read previously that Tails told Sonic "You're not talking your way out of this one!" Oh, the irony. Archie was intending to portray Tails to be more of the antagonist than Sonic was.

I like all that as well. Something tells me that no matter what they do you won't be satisfied though. I mean no offense honestly. It's just the vibe I'm getting. Even though I do agree that it's repetitive.

codeorange wrote:Tails never lost his views of what was right and wrong. He knows the difference. Any of you could get worked up if you end up seeing someone who is supposed to be your big brother figure, and then you see him going out with your love interest. Consider the other story where Amadeus, Tails' father, was locked up in prison because of the ongoing struggles to talk with Elias. That just adds fuel to the fire because Sonic and Tails were at opposing sides of the fence with that issue.

I never said he did lose his views. I'm just saying it could happen.

codeorange wrote:As for the idea of him maybe defecting from the Freedom Fighters; that's a futile effort. I'm sure that Archie does like to tease of that idea, to have Tails just drop everything that he and Sonic helped build and turn on his friend, but that's never going to happen. I can't see it. When the justice system is corrupt, and the form of justice that you know to be true and genuine isn't being upheld, then there's no problem with you opposing the system, because it does not benefit the people. That calls for a new system to be implemented. The Freedom Fighters stand for what is right, and they are supposed to uphold the interests of the people. Tails is for the people. Tails isn't willingly going to betray his friends in an act of rage or insanity because he can control himself. He's a bright fox, after all.

I've all ready explained a way around this and why I believe this is wrong so I won't go into it again. However, I was never intending any break up from Tails and his friends to be perminant either... if it helps. Which it probably doesn't.

Moved.

I love a good debate!...

... Anyway, as someone who has followed the comics for quite a long time, since I was no higher than a garden gnome, I never saw much of an issue or 'out-of-placeness' with the romance and love triangles that had taken place in some of the earlier issues. You had Sally/Sonic, Bunnie/Antoine, Julie-Su/Knuckles, Sally/Geoffry St. John, Mina/Sonic... I mean the list can go on here.

From an early point on, the Archie comics really did become their own universe. You don't see any of the Sonic games based on the Archie-verse. Honestly, I found the comics to be better than the later games but that's another discussion.

The romances were also providing, not just quick dramatic stabs, but long-term enduring issues. Yeah, Sonic can deal with just about anything Eggman, Shadow, Ixus, Mogus, or anyone throws at him -- but how can he handle seeing the girl he knows is for him with someone else? It's all meant to be showing us sides of a character not usually seen. This way we get to know the character more and see their emotions which - in a way - bring us closer to the characters.

And again, I always felt the comics to be their own entity after awhile. They still had to throw in Eggman, Rouge, Amy, Chaotix, etc., and all the newer things from the Sonic games to keep it current, but they still took their own liberties with the characters that made them unique and (in my opinion) more interesting.