New staff order?

I was thinking the new staff order should be something closer to this:

Administrators:

Zezima
karkooshy
Mly


Moderators:

The Freedom Fighter
sykog
Light Dash
Jmh
Super Racer Z
Plix



Thoughts, suggestions?

Why the hell would Lan be demoted to a mod?

Dramar bomb, incoming!

Personally, I don't feel it's a good idea.

sykog wrote:Why the hell would Lan be demoted to a mod?

Saw it a million miles away. Seriously.

Idea was, Lan knows all of jack shit about HTML, CSS, etc. A million trained monkeys with a million typewriters could write Shakespeare. Just one with a computer could probably do 90 percent of the stuff Lan does in the ACP by accident.

Honestly, he just clicks buttons and changes simple, plain-as-day settings. Anyone can do that. As a mod he can do most to all of what he does anyway. Only thing he does as an admin that he couldn't as a mod is a lot of stuff running the store, and again, seeing as that's simply changing a profile setting and simple math, anyone can do that.

Lan's been more or less hailed as a governor for acting like a police officer, so I'd agree with Zez on this one; make him a police officer proper.

ETA: Forgot to respond to the rest of it. *poor memory*

I'm mostly indifferent about it all, save for on Lan. But, I'd vouch for Jmh being an admin, provided he knows the first thing about web design, which seems to be the case.

Add me in there, and it's good.

Also Lan is a worthy, loyal and helpful admin, maybe he has no skills in HTML or CSS but is that all that matters? He's been around since the beginning, so don't demod him.

Let me put it to you like this,: Without knowledge of one of those whimsical languages that make up a webpage, Lan can do nothing important he couldn't do as a mod anyway. And sometimes, seriously, he just does ridiculous shit with his admin powers, that just plain ol' defies explanation.

It took probably 3 months to convince the nutcase to stop re-promoting Miles and Cy, some time back, even though neither of 'em had been around for ages, and given their history, if they did come back they'd probably use the un-removed admin powers to tear up everything they could of the site.

Really, he can do a good job of keeping people under control, that's about it. And as a mod he should be able to do everything up to and including permaban people. And I don't know about anyone else, but personally, I think sometimes he does a shit job of even that.

I've seen him, at times, stand idly by with 3+ banal morons filling the site with their shit, and when I ask him what the hell he thinks he's doing he honestly seems to think, sometimes, that fools on par with icetech stand a chance of being anything but a nuisance here. Actually, he unbanned icetech at one point. His excuse, along the lines of "I didn't see why he was banned." Looking at that mess of a post history, he couldn't find an utter lack of any hope?

I admit, I fucking hate Lan sometimes, and oh yeah, looking back on all those insane wars we've had, I have my fair share of personal reasons. But to me it's honestly arguable that he doesn't even deserve to be a mod. At least as a mod he rarely if ever would have a chance to do this needless shit that backtracks and trips over everyone else's work at random. His heart's in the right place, or however you'd put it, but for one he can hardly use his admin powers, and for two when he does it tends to end up causing a mess.

Jmh wrote:Personally, I don't feel it's a good idea.

I'm agreeing with Jmh on this one. The term 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' comes into mind, here. Well that's my two pennies worth anyway. It may not be valid to anyone, but it's here anyway.

Problem is, it sort of is broke, though. Has been forever, really. The staff aren't too fond of talking about how they trip over each other, screw up, don't know what to do sometimes, etc. etc. etc., seems like. But I can see it plain as day looking through the staff archives, and I'm more inclined to be honest: it should be the ninth wonder of the omniverse, that this place hasn't completely fell apart. Actually, I think it's mainly because when it gets close, Zez freaks out and goes SS4 to fix the problems.

Mly despite being the idiot that he is has a point
Theres nothing Lan can do could do right now as a mod instead of a admin
The only difference would be he will have a purple shiny name
In fact I recommended this a long time and was put into motion, yet mysterious he still got his powers back

The only reason staff trip over each other is because they are not talking to each other. This seems to be more of a communication problem, if anything.

NeoMetalSonic wrote:Mly despite being the idiot that he is has a point
Theres nothing Lan can do could do right now as a mod instead of a admin
The only difference would be he will have a purple shiny name
In fact I recommended this a long time and was put into motion, yet mysterious he still got his powers back

Eloquently put.

@SD: Call it what you want. It's not going to get better if admins are kept just because they're "nice guys" when they can't do anything as an admin they couldn't as a mod, and on top of that are horrible at communicating within the staff thereby being part of that problem, -- Lan, surely the hot button of this entire topic, is a prime example of both -- and the staff all around isn't ordered properly.

Say there's an election. Seeing as most of us live in the US or at least know a little about its politics, this shouldn't be too hard to imagine. Are you gonna vote for the nice guy who has no idea how anything of economics, politics, business, etc. work? Or are you gonna vote for someone who knows all those things?

Now, seeing as we don't really have a set quota for staff members, beyond one, (Zez's admin account is impossible to demote due to built-in system stuff, so.) no need to keep that guy who doesn't know anything about his job, rarely does anything, and when he does tends to screw it up somehow, in a proverbial fancy office chair somewhere.

@Neo: I'm not an idiot, (Or so I think.) but that's more or less the point I'm trying to hammer into everyone's skull here, yeah.

Well I have only been around when the staff had to do, well practically nothing...

But still add me to the list and I approve!

Hrm. Well, you're a silly sort, Pianta, but I imagine you know to be serious and responsible when there's actual need to. I can see it in you, so, you as a mod, I'd raise a glass to that. Only problem is, I don't really have a glass just sat nearby; I need to drink something and add it to my PC desk effects temporarily, before I do that.

Well I suppose Lan could be demoted as long as he's okay with it. It just seems weird since he's been one since the beginning of the forums, and 3 admins to 6 mods is kinda unbalanced, we should have 4 admins if you ask me.

Whatever the case may be here, I guess it's just up to Zezima in the end.

@sykog: Mods really don't have too much responsibility. The idea, at least far as I can figure, is they're just regular users unless someone's being a dick and giving them reason to use their mod powers. Need a bit of security around here at all times, with all the morons trickling in at various speeds, and occasional jackasses who would want to ruin this place.

What we don't need, though, is several people in the admin group tripping over each other, some of whom have no clue what they're doing, and making a mess that gets compounded faster than it gets cleaned up, due to that efficiency making it worse both ways: easier to make and harder to clean up.

@Nnoitra: Theoretically, yes, but it's not like Zez is gonna make a decision that makes the entire member base ragequit the site. But so far it doesn't look like anyone is dead-set against this, and seeing as I'm being all voice of reason-like, those who are unsure are coming around.

4 people isn't several.

No but 3's a company

@sykog: Yeah, well. True enough, but Lan isn't at all needed as an admin, anyway, despite his popularity and everyone seeming half-way to pissed over him being up for demotion. Hell, you fixed the PM reply button problem, so you'd be better at it than him, far as technical advantage goes.

Think about this: It's not really that often that admin stuff needs to be done anyway, so having 3 admins who really know what they're doing and work hard, would be a lot simpler and more efficient than 4, 5, 6, who knows how many, half of whom haven't a clue and/or are lazy.

LD, for example, is up to be demoted to mod because he's rarely around, and when he is he doesn't even do anything the vast majority of the time. Kar can be absent frequently, but when he comes here, generally he does something amazing with the ACP, that defies explanation. That sort of god-tier knowledge, where you look at the crazy syntax, and wonder, "How did he even do that!?"

I agree with Sykog.

Everything else is fine with me.

It's not up to Zez alone. The whole community should agree. At least get a comment from Lan himself. I can't imagine he'd agree with this, but who knows?

Also me being a mod would probably result trouble~ I can be serious and full of ANGST and RAEG if I want to but I don't want to.

Schnicklefritz is best moderator.

I'd ask him before we just spring it on him. Valid points have been made.