Shadow's Death: The Theory Behind his Death and Revival

Hushimo wrote:To humor the notion that Robotnik, or by extension, his robot pawns saved Shadow, how could he, if, immediately prior to and after Shadow's death, everyone was cognizant of what he was doing, where he was doing it, and most poignantly, when it was happening. In fact, it shows Robotnik during the credits, still on the ARK. I would assume at least one person would have noticed him sending information to his legion.

And even if the robots acted on their own, why would they happen to care about something falling from the sky enough to save it? And if we're talking realistic physics, they couldn't have saved him anyway because his body would have burned up in the atmosphere, and upon reaching terminal velocity, nothing short of a massive elastic net could cushion his fall, preventing instant death and everything around it, doubly assuming he wasn't already dead before he entered the atmosphere.

Just saying.

So are you agreeing with me? I can honestly say I agree with most of your statements (I bolded the ones that clearly represent what I have said). Thank you for the input.

karkooshy wrote:Just to say, back in sonic unleashed, sonic fell from space after being electrocuted, absorbed of all energy and thrown down from space to earth- and he didn't die.
If he could do it, surley the ultimate life form can xD
But yes, I believe Sega intended to have shadow dead by the end of SA2. But due to popularity brang him back. For a simple reason and that is for profit (Sega is, after all, a company).
Regardless of the way they brought him back, Sega- creators of the games- want this current shadow to be the REAL shadow. Concluding that shadow is still alive.

Which is why this a theory. Surely Shadow is alive, but not the REAL traditional SA2 Shadow. Only the Shadow the Hegehog Shadow remains alive (the different irrationally explained Shadow). You are completely right about the money- I mentioned this as well.

But I firmly believe in stories without a plothole which is why I long to know the truth, rather than see several separate stories on it. Funny how Shadow dies when the good Sonic games (SA2) died. To me, it's coincidental.

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:So are you agreeing with me? I can honestly say I agree with most of your statements (I bolded the ones that clearly represent what I have said). Thank you for the input.

Yes, I agree with you. Any theories opposing this are trying to defend Sega's hasty attempt to cover up a plothole invented for the sole purpose of milking a popular character.

karkooshy wrote:Just to say, back in sonic unleashed, sonic fell from space after being electrocuted, absorbed of all energy and thrown down from space to earth- and he didn't die.
If he could do it, surley the ultimate life form can xD
But yes, I believe Sega intended to have shadow dead by the end of SA2. But due to popularity brang him back. For a simple reason and that is for profit (Sega is, after all, a company).
Regardless of the way they brought him back, Sega- creators of the games- want this current shadow to be the REAL shadow. Concluding that shadow is still alive.

I agree with everything, and your observation about Unleashed does make a solid point. I'll see if I can't come up with something that won't make me look like a hypocrite.

It's not that much of a coincidence, actually. SA2 was the last game until the Dreamcast died and Sega went into software and then the merger happened.

Didn't Eggman say in the end of ShTH that it was the real Shadow though?

karkooshy wrote:Just to say, back in sonic unleashed, sonic fell from space after being electrocuted, absorbed of all energy and thrown down from space to earth- and he didn't die.
If he could do it, surley the ultimate life form can xD
But yes, I believe Sega intended to have shadow dead by the end of SA2. But due to popularity brang him back. For a simple reason and that is for profit (Sega is, after all, a company).
Regardless of the way they brought him back, Sega- creators of the games- want this current shadow to be the REAL shadow. Concluding that shadow is still alive.

As Hushimo said, you do serve a fine point indeed. But I find it irrelevant. Why?

Because Shadow was proclaimed dead in SA2. Look at my avatar for example. His ghost was present at the end of the game.

You serve a very great point, but it cannot explain Shadow's revival. Sonic's death was similar, but he was never pronounced dead like Shadow was. At the end of SA2, the common belief was that Shadow was dead. This was not the same for Sonic.

You bringing this up does serve a large purpose however. It opens up another plothole embedded within the previous plothole (Sega's getting bad with these). If one character supposedly died from falling to space why wouldn't the second one die as well? It seems to me Sonic Team can't get their physics straight on what categorizes death and what doesn't. Thus, another plothole among us all.

Jmh wrote:Didn't Eggman say in the end of ShTH that it was the real Shadow though?

I think so. But did you see Shadow's ghost at the end of SA2 (my avatar) where the common belief was that he was dead? As I said, this is in theory to a truthful Sonic Team plot hole. If you aren't catching my drift, read post 1 again or see the website in my link in the signature.

Hmm I agree with Schismatist

Super Sonic wrote:Hmm I agree with Schismatist

Why?

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:I think so. But did you see Shadow's ghost at the end of SA2 (my avatar) where the common belief was that he was dead? As I said, this is in theory to a truthful Sonic Team plot hole. If you aren't catching my drift, read post 1 again or see the website in my link in the signature.

That's because he was officially dead in SA2. Sonic Team had no plans to bring him back until the fans demanded it after SA2 was released. I don't disagree with you that it's illogical for him to come back the way he did, and that the Shadow today should be a clone/android. But the thing about Sonic Team, or all story creators for that matter, is that they can come up with anything they like, and it can be canon.

Jmh wrote:

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:I think so. But did you see Shadow's ghost at the end of SA2 (my avatar) where the common belief was that he was dead? As I said, this is in theory to a truthful Sonic Team plot hole. If you aren't catching my drift, read post 1 again or see the website in my link in the signature.

That's because he was officially dead in SA2. Sonic Team had no plans to bring him back until the fans demanded it after SA2 was released. I don't disagree with you that it's illogical for him to come back the way he did, and that the Shadow today should be a clone/android. But the thing about Sonic Team, or all story creators for that matter, is that they can come up with anything they like, and it can be canon.

True, but I disregard that they came up with Shadow's revival simply because it only had scattered proof around it. As stated, a definite logical reason would be much approved.

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:

Jmh wrote:That's because he was officially dead in SA2. Sonic Team had no plans to bring him back until the fans demanded it after SA2 was released. I don't disagree with you that it's illogical for him to come back the way he did, and that the Shadow today should be a clone/android. But the thing about Sonic Team, or all story creators for that matter, is that they can come up with anything they like, and it can be canon.

True, but I disregard that they came up with Shadow's revival simply because it only had scattered proof around it. As stated, a definite logical reason would be much approved.

I actually did give some logical reasons as to why he could be still alive earlier in this tread. Nobody seemed to respond to it. Maybe you don't consider Sonic X canon? If you only consider video games as canon, then I could use those also...

It is pretty obvious that Sonic can breath in space. How many Sonic games have you seen Sonic in space?--It has been a long time but I think I remember him breathing in space all the way back to Sonic 2. It is extremely cold in space. If Shadow is supposed to be like Sonic and Sonic can withstand extreme temperatures, why then can't Shadow withstand the extreme heat of the the atmosphere? Then of course in Sonic Unleashed Sonic falls from space and does not burn up in the atmosphere. Maybe you don't consider Sonic Unleashed to be canon?....It's made by team Sonic...Why wouldn't it be canon?

TheLordsbeacon wrote:

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:
True, but I disregard that they came up with Shadow's revival simply because it only had scattered proof around it. As stated, a definite logical reason would be much approved.

I actually did give some logical reasons as to why he could be still alive earlier in this tread. Nobody seemed to respond to it. Maybe you don't consider Sonic X canon? If you only consider video games as canon, then I could use those also...

It is pretty obvious that Sonic can breath in space. How many Sonic games have you seen Sonic in space?--It has been a long time but I think I remember him breathing in space all the way back to Sonic 2. It is extremely cold in space. If Shadow is supposed to be like Sonic and Sonic can withstand extreme temperatures, why then can't Shadow withstand the extreme heat of the the atmosphere? Then of course in Sonic Unleashed Sonic falls from space and does not burn up in the atmosphere. Maybe you don't consider Sonic Unleashed to be canon?....It's made by team Sonic...Why wouldn't it be canon?

I don't consider Sonic X canon, and I've never really seen it. On the other hand, Unleashed is canon, even though I dislike it.

I don't think breathing in space has to do with temperature, and I wouldn't consider space "cold" in the game unless this is told to us. Space is hard to measure in this game because there's still gravity (and falling) and like you said breathing. The aesthetics are a bit unclear.

I know it's fictional, but Shadow's transparent figure represented that he was gone to me. In any case, there is more to Earth's atmosphere than just heat. Shadow fell at a great height.

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:

TheLordsbeacon wrote:

I actually did give some logical reasons as to why he could be still alive earlier in this tread. Nobody seemed to respond to it. Maybe you don't consider Sonic X canon? If you only consider video games as canon, then I could use those also...

It is pretty obvious that Sonic can breath in space. How many Sonic games have you seen Sonic in space?--It has been a long time but I think I remember him breathing in space all the way back to Sonic 2. It is extremely cold in space. If Shadow is supposed to be like Sonic and Sonic can withstand extreme temperatures, why then can't Shadow withstand the extreme heat of the the atmosphere? Then of course in Sonic Unleashed Sonic falls from space and does not burn up in the atmosphere. Maybe you don't consider Sonic Unleashed to be canon?....It's made by team Sonic...Why wouldn't it be canon?

I don't consider Sonic X canon, and I've never really seen it. On the other hand, Unleashed is canon, even though I dislike it.

I don't think breathing in space has to do with temperature, and I wouldn't consider space "cold" in the game unless this is told to us. Space is hard to measure in this game because there's still gravity (and falling) and like you said breathing. The aesthetics are a bit unclear.

I know it's fictional, but Shadow's transparent figure represented that he was gone to me. In any case, there is more to Earth's atmosphere than just heat. Shadow fell at a great height.

I know what you are saying about breathing in space, but I think you might have missed the point I was making about the temperature in space. If there isn't any source of radiation around, the object that is in space would loose its heat until it reaches absolute zero (which is about −459.67 °F). On the other hand, if Sonic were facing the sun, he could reach some extreme hot temperatures.

I can see your point about the faded picture of Shadow in the end of Sonic Adventure 2. I suppose the question then is, "If the Sega kept the Dreamcast around longer, what were they planing for Sonic Adventure 3?"

Sonic Adventure 2 wrote:

Jmh wrote:That's because he was officially dead in SA2. Sonic Team had no plans to bring him back until the fans demanded it after SA2 was released. I don't disagree with you that it's illogical for him to come back the way he did, and that the Shadow today should be a clone/android. But the thing about Sonic Team, or all story creators for that matter, is that they can come up with anything they like, and it can be canon.

True, but I disregard that they came up with Shadow's revival simply because it only had scattered proof around it. As stated, a definite logical reason would be much approved.

Logic doesn't exist in Sonic Team though.

Then again, maybe they'll explain it in Generations as well as explaining how classic and modern Sonic are the same character despite looking different. Better yet, maybe they'll explain why a blue hedgehog can talk and run at the speed of sound.

All this Shadow talk is confusing me... Some people are saying he's dead and others are saying he's alive. Confuzzled. @__@

But about that "Shadow's ghost around the earth" thing, that doesn't really look like a ghost. Games do that sort of stuff all the time. Take one of the main character's picture and fade it out on another picture for mere artwork. A certain cartoon I like did that many times in the show. They took one of the main characters and faded him out in the background of many episodes, but he never died. So I'm guessing that "ghost" was just meant for the artwork.

And like some of the members here said, yes, in Shadow the Hedgehog, they do mention Shadow being the original one many times. Plus, Shadow would always brag about being the "Ultimate Life Form".

Also, at the end of SA2B when Shadow was dying, didn't he poof away in some bright light? He was like "Maria, forgive me, this is what you wanted, blah blah," and POOF! This big, bright light comes and Shadow disappears. If this was already explained in one of the games, I apologize for my ditsy, vacuous personality.

Say... Now that I think about it, ever noticed how in StH, the Shadow you play as seems to be the only one with the flashbacks about Maria and remembers the promise he made? 'Cause he chooses weather to keep the promise or to follow Mr. Black Doomy Starfish Eye, while the other Shadows just instantly wanna kill you. If the one Shadow you play as ends up regretting all the deaths he caused, wouldn't that make all the other clones do the same? That doesn't make seance to me if it's not the real Shadow... If one android would remember Maria and try to keep the promise, so would the rest, right? But the rest are like freaking robots. They see you and go "IM GONNA KILL U!!". I'm guessing it's the original Shadow.

Let's remember that while fictional/fantasy games are "fake", they have boundaries of what is accepted and not. Sonic Team has been disloyal to these boundaries.

In SA2(B) when you play in space and you fall, you die. Presumably, Shadow also died at the end of the game. In Unleashed, Sonic lived while falling in space, a clear representation of Sonic Team being disloyal to their own fictional boundaries. That's why there's plot holes.

As for all the games beyond SA2B, I disregard most of them.

Sonic Heroes- fun game, but inaccurate in regards to Shadow; not widely acclaimed

Shadow the Hedgehog- I liked it, but not widely acclaimed

Sonic 06- probably the most hated

Notice I'm only mentioning games related to Shadow. These games can easily be disregarded not only because Shadow was theoretically "dead" before they came out, but also because they are not widely acclaimed in society. Most people would probably want to eliminate them, or at least change them. In this respect, Shadow's modern identity has an aura of dislike around it as the fan base can't agree these days.

And all this happened at exactly the same time Sega fell apart in the console race.

Shadow's death/Sega losing console race/Negativity in new games are all in correlation with each other. I'm seeing the pattern here.

IF Shadow died, it wasn't because of the fall. He died because he couldn't handle being Super.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:IF Shadow died, it wasn't because of the fall. He died because he couldn't handle being Super.

If he's the ultimate life form it shouldn't be a problem.

Hushimo wrote:

The Freedom Fighter wrote:IF Shadow died, it wasn't because of the fall. He died because he couldn't handle being Super.

If he's the ultimate life form it shouldn't be a problem.

But apparently it is. You can tell by his dialogue it's getting harder for him, and Sonic tries to get him to go back to the colony because of it. A lot of people beat Final Hazard before they can see ARK enter the atmosphere, so they miss it.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:

Hushimo wrote:

If he's the ultimate life form it shouldn't be a problem.

But apparently it is. You can tell by his dialogue it's getting harder for him, and Sonic tries to get him to go back to the colony because of it. A lot of people beat Final Hazard before they can see ARK enter the atmosphere, so they miss it.

So muc for the ultimate lifeform

Whether he died or not, the franchise and Sega barely survived to its finer days, so it's all in theory really. Things went downhill after Shadow's fall in SA2.

I seriously doubt that was his ghost at the end of SA2 over the earth. I think it was more of just the game doing a remembrance of the sacrifice he made.

Actually, I was always confused as to what happened to Shadow and this threw a little shaft of light on it.

Link451 wrote:I seriously doubt that was his ghost at the end of SA2 over the earth. I think it was more of just the game doing a remembrance of the sacrifice he made.

Same with me.

Link451 wrote:I seriously doubt that was his ghost at the end of SA2 over the earth. I think it was more of just the game doing a remembrance of the sacrifice he made.

Right then.

well at sonic unleased when was hurdling to earth when he enter athomsphere he had this glow thingy then fell quickly I am not saying SA2 is right about shadow but im not also saying freedom fighter is right.......