Should I bother with the SEGA forum anymore?

sykog77 wrote:

sundayseclipse wrote:I post declarative statments of my opinion and try not to get in affairs of fan boy idiocy( though charles makes this hard not too)
But I do troll sometimes :3

Trolling is so much fun.

:<_<:

True dat

I find it funny that I got a negative rep vote for just doing what I do on the Sega forums. All I do is write stories/fanfics. I also have to question why there's even a rep system in the first place. You know, red and green boxes next to your username. This isn't a popularity contest. You should already tell who's trying to be a logical member and who's just being a spammer. That's why we have the ignore feature.

It seemed like a good idea at the time? I don't know, I'm just the president.

I like the rep system. It can be funny at times.

I'm just gonna add, I rarely go onto the SEGA forums anymore. Maybe once a week to check on things, but it's not worth my time anymore. When I go on, I hardly recognize anyone, because the people I had met when I first joined are long gone, and the rest of the people are whiny 10 year olds who talk about their fancharacters and whine how Sonic games are good.

In fact, I've noticed that I rarely come onto Sonic forums, including this, anymore.

That's hardly the case ss919. Believe you me.

I've noticed that most of the smart members there are getting dumber. And here I thought it could be contained in the Sonic forums.

Erazor wrote:I've noticed that most of the smart members there are getting dumber. And here I thought it could be contained in the Sonic forums.

Is it a disease?

Oh, and then there are these people:

Canonicity analysis of Sonic works

This is my general opinion on Sonic works being main-stream or not,
and whether some aspects of some games are considered “spin-offy” or
actually real, main-stream stuff. It just to express my general
opinion, to you and even to myself, as a warm up for the fan fiction I
will be in the process of writing for the next few months. I would
really hope to get some different opinions on this stuff, with some
evidence (of course) to contradict my opinion if you feel the need to.
I am open to constructive criticism, So please post!
I am guessing that all of you have played the older games I will
mention. If not, you must’ve not played much Genesis, or even gotten
your hands on Mega Collection for Gamecube, or the same-game expansion
for Xbox and PS2. It’s possible to emulate them on your computer, but
PIRACY IS WRONG, people. =D Don’t steal.
SOME of the things I say I am just establishing as common knowledge of
Sonic, or, in other words, stating the obvious. That's just to
emphasize further points.
As for the newer games, some of them I haven’t even played for myself;
I look up cut scenes on Youtube and search for deeper analysis on
Wikipedia. Wiki is usually right, y’all, so I won’t diss on it.
Without further adieu, here is my analysis of Sonic canonicity.

Games (before Sonic Adventure):

Chaos Emeralds: Throughout older Sonic games, the chaos emeralds
have changed shape and color. The CANON colors for the emeralds are:
red, green, blue, purple, goldenrod, silver, and sky blue. In Sonic 1,
there were only 6 emeralds, with the sky blue emerald missing. Which,
you know, could mean Sonic or Eggman just didn't discover the last one
yet. Would explain perfectly why you can't go Super Sonic in this game.
In Sonic 2, there were seven, but the seventh emerald was pink instead
of blue, and the blue emerald from Sonic 1 was changed to a sky blue
color (I think Sonic Team was just going for the original blue emerald
in general; I don’t believe at this point they knew they were going to
have 2 blue emeralds, resulting in this accident. Plus they were really
indecisive on colors anyway in the beginning). In Sonic 3/Sonic and
Knuckles, the goldenrod emerald was given a more orange-ish color,
which stuck throughout the older games. It could still be considered a
darker shade of yellow, however. The Emeralds also used to be shaped
like octagons. Now, they are more gem-shaped (although it is worth
noting that the shape of the older emeralds looks similar to the
present emeralds viewed from above.). So, both the blue emeralds from
Sonic 1 and 2 were included, and the pink emerald erased.
To be
more simple, it’s safe to assume that the emeralds used in Sonic
Adventure and on are the canon colors and previous colors contradicting
that are not canon. I don’t believe in a pink emerald… or a magenta
emerald or whatever happened to the Sonic the Fighters emeralds. I
think we can all agree on that.

Super Transformation: Here are my beliefs on Super Transformation: The only TRUE super transformation can be achieved by hedgehogs.
Okay, so the transformation of Knuckles in Sonic & Knuckles; canon?
Possibly, but it wasn't a SUPER transformation, just a transformation.
I mean, he didn’t change color, just flashed white. And remember that
anything can draw power from the chaos emeralds. Eggman is able to use
them to do all sorts of things, and Perfect Chaos was able to use them
to become a great, big bad water lizard. However, no life form can
unlock the TRUE power of the chaos emeralds except for Sonic and the
rest of the hedgehog gang. In Sonic Heroes, Knuckles and Tails had
highly elevated power from the emeralds, but they were… in bubbles, for
gods sake. XD How can that possibly be a super transformation?
So it’s wonderfully obvious that only the hedgehogs can achieve Super
(or “true“) transformation via Chaos Emeralds. So does Super Knuckles
exist? nope. Oh, and Amy is a hedgehog, but she hasn’t shown any
evidence of transformation yet so I am forced to accept that she can’t
transform because Sonic Team is sexist when it comes to hedgehogs.
Which is fine with me, I’m not a big fan of Amy anyway. (No offense
Sonic Team, that comment was all in good fun! =D)
Oh yes, I almost forgot, Sol Emeralds and Blaze… well, um… I dunno,
maybe the reason they named that form "Burning Blaze" is because it
isn't really a Super Transformation, just sort of a... I dunno,
"burning transformation"? Anyway, another dimension, another story.
moving on…

The shenanigans of Sonic 3 and Knuckles: Okay, so don’t get me
wrong. Sonic 3K was a GREAT game. I mean, it was basically the first
Sonic game I played. Honest! On the computer, it was a demo of Sonic
and Knuckles Collection for PC. And I could only play the first level,
Angel Island. Which sucked, because I wanted to go on, but it was fun.
When I finally got the full game and beat it, I thought Hyper Sonic was
a cool concept, and at the time (before Sonic Adventure and all that) I
totally believed they would include it. I thought I was disappointed
when they never included it and I was forced to accept it as
non-canonical. But I then realized that Hyper Sonic and Super Emeralds
were a little… excessive, and that they were just a cheap way to tie
Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles’ special stages together. Plus Chaos
Emeralds have an infinite amount of energy anyway, so how do Super
Emeralds beat infinite, exactly?
Okay, so some believe that the
emeralds in Sonic Adventure 2, in the end when they were noticeably
larger in the altar chamber (where you fight Biolizard) were Super
Emeralds. And so I say to this, what does that make the Master Emerald
when it gets bigger? A SUPER Master Emerald? I made a safe assumption
that the Chaos Emeralds could expand and contract similar to the Master
Emerald did in the game; I mean, it was the size of Knuckles hand at
some points and then larger than his body at others. Chaos Emeralds are
controlled by the Master Emerald, therefore there’s no reason they
couldn’t do the same thing. So, no Super Emeralds, no Hyper Sonic. Let
alone Hyper Knuckles, which goes without saying...
Oh, and about Super Tails; WHY does he get flickie birds that kill
everything while Hyper Sonic gets none? Correct answer: HE DOESN’T.
Super Tails doesn’t exist. And he sucks. Flickies just made it worse
trying to defeat the mini-boss in Sandopolis Zone anyway:
“DURR. LET’S ATTACK HIM EVEN THO HE IZ STUPED ENOUGH TO COMMIT SUICIDEZ. LOLZ!”.
I have a vengeance against those birds… -_-;;
The canon storyline goes from Sonic 3 to Sonic and Knuckles; WITHOUT needing the plot bridge that was Sonic 3K

Spinoffs: The spin-off games that seem to pose a mild (or worse)
threat to the canonicity of the Sonic storyline, I will include here.
The worst, is umm… Sonic Spinball, in my opinion. Here’s my deal: Sonic
games without Super transformation or something of the sort, suck…
hard. And it’s hard to include a Super Transformation when you include
about a bajillion-and-one Chaos Emeralds, all the same color, that
really do nothing. Sonic the Fighters… well I liked this game. The 8
random-colored emeralds was excessive, but we all know there isn’t 8,
so why fight about it? The time stones in Sonic CD were obviously a one
time thing, so no use mentioning those; they weren’t Chaos Emeralds,
despite similarities (only game to not suck without Super
transformation, but I gotta be honest, I think Sonic and Knuckles was
better than Sonic CD, better ending). The concept of the emeralds
“losing balance” in Sonic Chaos has since been proved wrong. The chaos
emeralds are ALWAYS apart these days, and (no matter who takes them,
Eggman or worse) it won’t cause natural disasters. Knuckles Chaotix, I
think, is actually VERY canon. The inclusion of the Chaotix team in
Sonic Heroes confirmed that for me. Plus it was such a great game, and
it COULD be possible to infuse a ring with energy of a chaos emerald.
The emerald colors were wrong (again) in Sonic R, which leads me to
believe that Sonic Team, at the time, REALLY had trouble deciding on
emerald colors. Seriously. Plus all the excessive characters like Metal
Knuckles and Tails Doll (O.O creeeeeepy) just stamped it as a spin-off.
(I would like to take this chance to say I liked 3D Blast. I really
did, dunno why. )
That’s really all there is, right? Besides other unmentionables.

Sonic Adventure and later

Post-Sonic Adventure and the many character additions: I put the
games into these two categories because Sonic Adventure and on
COMPLETELY redefined the feel of Sonic. Sonic has NEVER been the same,
short, fat version of himself since this game, and EVERYONE’S character
models were redefined, if only mildly. Agreed? I’m guessing everyone
just grew up. It’d be easier just to list the main-stream games after
this one that are canon: Adventure, Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow
the Hedgehog, Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush series, Sonic ‘06, Sonic
Chronicles, and Sonic Unleashed. Some of those I accept canonicity with
a wince, more than others. I’d like to point out some things though:
Sonic turning into a werehog in Sonic Unleashed was an irregularity
caused by Eggman’s machine. NOTHING MORE. In the end, Sonic got rid of
it, and that is the way it should STAY, forever. When I first saw the
concept of a werehog... goodness. I though Sonic Team had lost their
mind. I am so glad they had a good explanation for including it.
So really characters fall into 3 categories with me: Mainstream,
meaning they re-appear in most Sonic games, Exclusive, which means they
are minor characters that appear usually only in one game, like
Princess Elise or most of the final bosses, and Spinoff characters,
that appear just in Sonic Spin-offs like Sonic Riders.
The Sonic Rush series was good; I believe in parallel universes to
Sonic’s and it was a pretty good plot element. Marine, however, was
bogus. A raccoon character was the worst idea of all time. This is
Sonic, for Christ sake, not Care Bears. I can deal with Cream the
Rabbit. And Big, the cat, while undoubtedly the stupidest character
created, is tolerable in small doses. Marine was pushing it because her
character model SCREAMS spin-off or exclusive, NEVER mainstream. As for
the rest of the new characters, Shadow was the best inclusion as a
character of all time. Shadow adds so much more depth, even to Sonic’s
own personality, and was spot on when introduced as the second main
hedgehog. But.... okay, I couldn't help but feel like they were copying
Dragonball Z here; particularly Vegeta's entrance into the DBZ series
as a villian and also Goku's equal and THEN turning Vegeta good, while
still keeping him dark. Which is AWFUL, because usually I can't stand
ANY comparison between Sonic and DBZ. That's like Sonic taboo to me.
You either like it for what it is and don't criticize it for being
similar to something else, or do otherwise. It was just that ONE thing
that was a little too similar for me, nothing else. But it was a safe
idea, nonetheless, if that's what they really did. Sonic Adventure 2
was arguably the BEST 3D Sonic game, mostly because it was an enjoyable
game and Shadow was so… kickass. Rouge was a less successful addition
than Shadow, unfortunately, but still okay when portrayed the right
way. The romance thing between her and Knuckles, though, was flat out
weird. You know, Her being a bat and all (and the "I'm a total HOAR"
aspect doesn't help either). I mean… come on. I’m not a big fan of
cross-species dating. Okay, anyway... Blaze. A very interesting,
mysterious character, but with her came Eggman Nega. And I mean, OKAY,
parallel universes, different Eggmans, I get all that, but why is he
included in so many of the handheld titles? It‘s… discomforting,
honestly. He's not THAT great of a villian. Otherwise, Blaze? Good
addition, especially when they portrayed her as a tag-along to Silver
in Sonic '06. Silver, while it was a VERY big risk to add another main
hedgehog to the cast, actually has some depth to his backstory and is a
potentially good character. I hated Sonic ‘06 gameplay, the non-CG
cutscene graphics and load times and EVERYTHING else wrong with it as
much as anyone else, but the plotline was still GOOD. You think the
story doesn't really matter because, you know, the whole ordeal “was
completely forgotten by everybody” after the end, but I learned a lot
about the Chaos Emeralds; they can manipulate time to prevent death. As
for Sonic Chronicles… *sigh* I gotta be honest, Shade was a good
addition too. She’s still new and all, maybe just another
exclusive/spin-off character, but another echidna was a good idea.
Knuckles needs an echidna to love anyway =D. And not a dead echidna at
that (I’m talking of course about Tikal). E-123 Omega is a robot who’s
not an Eggman robot anymore. And now he‘s a recurring character.
Shallow character, but tolerable. (C’monnn… he’s a robot. =D) The
Chaotix team are really quite annoying, but none-the-less, they got
included in Sonic Heroes. That makes them officially recurring
characters, so they’re okay. Charmy isn’t quite as annoying as Big or
Marine in terms of shallow characters, and Vector’s personality is…
okay, Vector sucks (FIND DA COMPOOTER ROOM!! -.-;; ). But then Espio is
a quiet, closed-personality ninja. TRY and tell me that isn’t a cool
addition.
Chaos and Tikal I would like to see included in later plot elements, to
be honest. Characters are considered “shallow” because they haven’t
been explored enough, and Sonic Team adds too many new characters
before that can happen, in my opinion. If they explored characters and
added dimensions to existing characters, then there would be no need to
add new ones. I mean c'mon... they're in the Master Emerald. They're
RIGHT there. They're just ASKING to come back. It wouldn't be hard at
all. =/
The biggest of all the villains, and of course my absolute favorite of
all time: definitely Metal Sonic. Just the concept of Metal Sonic has
been glorified to me since my youth. I saw that anime movie with Sonic
and Metal Sonic and I just… loved it (although it is non-canonical to
me now). His inclusion in Sonic Heroes just… god, it just blew my mind.
Even though the plot was a little hard to follow in Sonic Heroes (I
guess because Sonic Team expected you to just GET it), adding Metal
Sonic back into the picture post-Sonic Adventure was just… beautiful.
Turning him into a giant dragon? Might’ve spoiled my experience a
little, but none-the-less, Metal is back, and the feeling is good.

That cover everything? Hope so. Spin-offs next.

Post-Sonic Adventure spinoffs: Which are canon, which are not,
and which should never be spoken of again? Let’s start with Sonic
Riders. I will never except those stupid overgrown flickie-birds as
recurring characters. They will stay out of mainstream Sonic for good,
I’m convinced of that. I told you, I have a vengeance against flickies,
and they look like flickies, and they suck as characters. The Sonic
storybook series is just like Sonic Riders; and when I say that, I
don't mean they suck as games (well, Black Knight might), they just
will never be mentioned in mainstream because, really, the stories are
just metaphors and dreams and the like. Darkspine and… what was it,
Excalibur Sonic? Just METAPHORS. For Super Sonic, of course. Or did you
really believe that Knuckles was ACTUALLY Sinbad, or Sir Gawain the
knight?
However, the chili dog reference in the beginning of Black Knight has
FORCED me to accept that Sonic loving Chili Dogs is, in fact,
canonical. which is fine with me. I always missed that comical
aspect. (on a side note, Sonic being called "Knight of the Wind" in
Black Knight was a very interesting metaphor to me, As I have always
associated Sonic with “Wind“.)
Uh… okay, Sonic Battle for GBA. Remember what I said about no super
transformation = suck? Yeah. This game lacked that “ ‘GRR, I AM
ULTIMATE EMERL, I WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!’…and suddenly a DRAMATIC
Super Sonic transformation directly following!!” feel to it. Sonic
Battle didn’t really have a deep fighting system anyway. Oh yeah, and
they did the same thing as Sonic Spinball with the Emeralds; made them
all one color. How cheap is that? And they broke them up into Emerald
Shards... Which, you know, is fine with the Master Emerald; not so much
with the Chaos Emeralds. But obviously Gizoids are popular among the
handheld games, because they get talked a lot about in Chronicles. So I
say this game is conditionally canonical, with the only exception being
the Emeralds, because I like the gizoids. Really good comeback as
villians in Chronicles.

Okay, I’m done. So is there anything I haven’t really covered, or maybe
anything you have a different opinion on? If so, I would really like to
debate on it as I could use different inputs for my Sonic fanfic.

Seriously? Who wants to read all that?

I dont know I think my eyes just popped out from straining them from that post...

How fictional obsession makes people fail so hard....

Mobius 1 wrote:I dont know I think my eyes just popped out from straining them from that post...

It wasn't really that smal, I just had to make it like that so our fingers wouldn't get tired scrolling.

sykog77 wrote:Oh, and then there are these people:

Canonicity analysis of Sonic works

This is my general opinion on Sonic works being main-stream or not,
and whether some aspects of some games are considered “spin-offy” or
actually real, main-stream stuff. It just to express my general
opinion, to you and even to myself, as a warm up for the fan fiction I
will be in the process of writing for the next few months. I would
really hope to get some different opinions on this stuff, with some
evidence (of course) to contradict my opinion if you feel the need to.
I am open to constructive criticism, So please post!
I am guessing that all of you have played the older games I will
mention. If not, you must’ve not played much Genesis, or even gotten
your hands on Mega Collection for Gamecube, or the same-game expansion
for Xbox and PS2. It’s possible to emulate them on your computer, but
PIRACY IS WRONG, people. =D Don’t steal.
SOME of the things I say I am just establishing as common knowledge of
Sonic, or, in other words, stating the obvious. That's just to
emphasize further points.
As for the newer games, some of them I haven’t even played for myself;
I look up cut scenes on Youtube and search for deeper analysis on
Wikipedia. Wiki is usually right, y’all, so I won’t diss on it.
Without further adieu, here is my analysis of Sonic canonicity.

Games (before Sonic Adventure):

Chaos Emeralds: Throughout older Sonic games, the chaos emeralds
have changed shape and color. The CANON colors for the emeralds are:
red, green, blue, purple, goldenrod, silver, and sky blue. In Sonic 1,
there were only 6 emeralds, with the sky blue emerald missing. Which,
you know, could mean Sonic or Eggman just didn't discover the last one
yet. Would explain perfectly why you can't go Super Sonic in this game.
In Sonic 2, there were seven, but the seventh emerald was pink instead
of blue, and the blue emerald from Sonic 1 was changed to a sky blue
color (I think Sonic Team was just going for the original blue emerald
in general; I don’t believe at this point they knew they were going to
have 2 blue emeralds, resulting in this accident. Plus they were really
indecisive on colors anyway in the beginning). In Sonic 3/Sonic and
Knuckles, the goldenrod emerald was given a more orange-ish color,
which stuck throughout the older games. It could still be considered a
darker shade of yellow, however. The Emeralds also used to be shaped
like octagons. Now, they are more gem-shaped (although it is worth
noting that the shape of the older emeralds looks similar to the
present emeralds viewed from above.). So, both the blue emeralds from
Sonic 1 and 2 were included, and the pink emerald erased.
To be
more simple, it’s safe to assume that the emeralds used in Sonic
Adventure and on are the canon colors and previous colors contradicting
that are not canon. I don’t believe in a pink emerald… or a magenta
emerald or whatever happened to the Sonic the Fighters emeralds. I
think we can all agree on that.

Super Transformation: Here are my beliefs on Super Transformation: The only TRUE super transformation can be achieved by hedgehogs.
Okay, so the transformation of Knuckles in Sonic & Knuckles; canon?
Possibly, but it wasn't a SUPER transformation, just a transformation.
I mean, he didn’t change color, just flashed white. And remember that
anything can draw power from the chaos emeralds. Eggman is able to use
them to do all sorts of things, and Perfect Chaos was able to use them
to become a great, big bad water lizard. However, no life form can
unlock the TRUE power of the chaos emeralds except for Sonic and the
rest of the hedgehog gang. In Sonic Heroes, Knuckles and Tails had
highly elevated power from the emeralds, but they were… in bubbles, for
gods sake. XD How can that possibly be a super transformation?
So it’s wonderfully obvious that only the hedgehogs can achieve Super
(or “true“) transformation via Chaos Emeralds. So does Super Knuckles
exist? nope. Oh, and Amy is a hedgehog, but she hasn’t shown any
evidence of transformation yet so I am forced to accept that she can’t
transform because Sonic Team is sexist when it comes to hedgehogs.
Which is fine with me, I’m not a big fan of Amy anyway. (No offense
Sonic Team, that comment was all in good fun! =D)
Oh yes, I almost forgot, Sol Emeralds and Blaze… well, um… I dunno,
maybe the reason they named that form "Burning Blaze" is because it
isn't really a Super Transformation, just sort of a... I dunno,
"burning transformation"? Anyway, another dimension, another story.
moving on…

The shenanigans of Sonic 3 and Knuckles: Okay, so don’t get me
wrong. Sonic 3K was a GREAT game. I mean, it was basically the first
Sonic game I played. Honest! On the computer, it was a demo of Sonic
and Knuckles Collection for PC. And I could only play the first level,
Angel Island. Which sucked, because I wanted to go on, but it was fun.
When I finally got the full game and beat it, I thought Hyper Sonic was
a cool concept, and at the time (before Sonic Adventure and all that) I
totally believed they would include it. I thought I was disappointed
when they never included it and I was forced to accept it as
non-canonical. But I then realized that Hyper Sonic and Super Emeralds
were a little… excessive, and that they were just a cheap way to tie
Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles’ special stages together. Plus Chaos
Emeralds have an infinite amount of energy anyway, so how do Super
Emeralds beat infinite, exactly?
Okay, so some believe that the
emeralds in Sonic Adventure 2, in the end when they were noticeably
larger in the altar chamber (where you fight Biolizard) were Super
Emeralds. And so I say to this, what does that make the Master Emerald
when it gets bigger? A SUPER Master Emerald? I made a safe assumption
that the Chaos Emeralds could expand and contract similar to the Master
Emerald did in the game; I mean, it was the size of Knuckles hand at
some points and then larger than his body at others. Chaos Emeralds are
controlled by the Master Emerald, therefore there’s no reason they
couldn’t do the same thing. So, no Super Emeralds, no Hyper Sonic. Let
alone Hyper Knuckles, which goes without saying...
Oh, and about Super Tails; WHY does he get flickie birds that kill
everything while Hyper Sonic gets none? Correct answer: HE DOESN’T.
Super Tails doesn’t exist. And he sucks. Flickies just made it worse
trying to defeat the mini-boss in Sandopolis Zone anyway:
“DURR. LET’S ATTACK HIM EVEN THO HE IZ STUPED ENOUGH TO COMMIT SUICIDEZ. LOLZ!”.
I have a vengeance against those birds… -_-;;
The canon storyline goes from Sonic 3 to Sonic and Knuckles; WITHOUT needing the plot bridge that was Sonic 3K

Spinoffs: The spin-off games that seem to pose a mild (or worse)
threat to the canonicity of the Sonic storyline, I will include here.
The worst, is umm… Sonic Spinball, in my opinion. Here’s my deal: Sonic
games without Super transformation or something of the sort, suck…
hard. And it’s hard to include a Super Transformation when you include
about a bajillion-and-one Chaos Emeralds, all the same color, that
really do nothing. Sonic the Fighters… well I liked this game. The 8
random-colored emeralds was excessive, but we all know there isn’t 8,
so why fight about it? The time stones in Sonic CD were obviously a one
time thing, so no use mentioning those; they weren’t Chaos Emeralds,
despite similarities (only game to not suck without Super
transformation, but I gotta be honest, I think Sonic and Knuckles was
better than Sonic CD, better ending). The concept of the emeralds
“losing balance” in Sonic Chaos has since been proved wrong. The chaos
emeralds are ALWAYS apart these days, and (no matter who takes them,
Eggman or worse) it won’t cause natural disasters. Knuckles Chaotix, I
think, is actually VERY canon. The inclusion of the Chaotix team in
Sonic Heroes confirmed that for me. Plus it was such a great game, and
it COULD be possible to infuse a ring with energy of a chaos emerald.
The emerald colors were wrong (again) in Sonic R, which leads me to
believe that Sonic Team, at the time, REALLY had trouble deciding on
emerald colors. Seriously. Plus all the excessive characters like Metal
Knuckles and Tails Doll (O.O creeeeeepy) just stamped it as a spin-off.
(I would like to take this chance to say I liked 3D Blast. I really
did, dunno why. )
That’s really all there is, right? Besides other unmentionables.

Sonic Adventure and later

Post-Sonic Adventure and the many character additions: I put the
games into these two categories because Sonic Adventure and on
COMPLETELY redefined the feel of Sonic. Sonic has NEVER been the same,
short, fat version of himself since this game, and EVERYONE’S character
models were redefined, if only mildly. Agreed? I’m guessing everyone
just grew up. It’d be easier just to list the main-stream games after
this one that are canon: Adventure, Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow
the Hedgehog, Sonic Advance series, Sonic Rush series, Sonic ‘06, Sonic
Chronicles, and Sonic Unleashed. Some of those I accept canonicity with
a wince, more than others. I’d like to point out some things though:
Sonic turning into a werehog in Sonic Unleashed was an irregularity
caused by Eggman’s machine. NOTHING MORE. In the end, Sonic got rid of
it, and that is the way it should STAY, forever. When I first saw the
concept of a werehog... goodness. I though Sonic Team had lost their
mind. I am so glad they had a good explanation for including it.
So really characters fall into 3 categories with me: Mainstream,
meaning they re-appear in most Sonic games, Exclusive, which means they
are minor characters that appear usually only in one game, like
Princess Elise or most of the final bosses, and Spinoff characters,
that appear just in Sonic Spin-offs like Sonic Riders.
The Sonic Rush series was good; I believe in parallel universes to
Sonic’s and it was a pretty good plot element. Marine, however, was
bogus. A raccoon character was the worst idea of all time. This is
Sonic, for Christ sake, not Care Bears. I can deal with Cream the
Rabbit. And Big, the cat, while undoubtedly the stupidest character
created, is tolerable in small doses. Marine was pushing it because her
character model SCREAMS spin-off or exclusive, NEVER mainstream. As for
the rest of the new characters, Shadow was the best inclusion as a
character of all time. Shadow adds so much more depth, even to Sonic’s
own personality, and was spot on when introduced as the second main
hedgehog. But.... okay, I couldn't help but feel like they were copying
Dragonball Z here; particularly Vegeta's entrance into the DBZ series
as a villian and also Goku's equal and THEN turning Vegeta good, while
still keeping him dark. Which is AWFUL, because usually I can't stand
ANY comparison between Sonic and DBZ. That's like Sonic taboo to me.
You either like it for what it is and don't criticize it for being
similar to something else, or do otherwise. It was just that ONE thing
that was a little too similar for me, nothing else. But it was a safe
idea, nonetheless, if that's what they really did. Sonic Adventure 2
was arguably the BEST 3D Sonic game, mostly because it was an enjoyable
game and Shadow was so… kickass. Rouge was a less successful addition
than Shadow, unfortunately, but still okay when portrayed the right
way. The romance thing between her and Knuckles, though, was flat out
weird. You know, Her being a bat and all (and the "I'm a total HOAR"
aspect doesn't help either). I mean… come on. I’m not a big fan of
cross-species dating. Okay, anyway... Blaze. A very interesting,
mysterious character, but with her came Eggman Nega. And I mean, OKAY,
parallel universes, different Eggmans, I get all that, but why is he
included in so many of the handheld titles? It‘s… discomforting,
honestly. He's not THAT great of a villian. Otherwise, Blaze? Good
addition, especially when they portrayed her as a tag-along to Silver
in Sonic '06. Silver, while it was a VERY big risk to add another main
hedgehog to the cast, actually has some depth to his backstory and is a
potentially good character. I hated Sonic ‘06 gameplay, the non-CG
cutscene graphics and load times and EVERYTHING else wrong with it as
much as anyone else, but the plotline was still GOOD. You think the
story doesn't really matter because, you know, the whole ordeal “was
completely forgotten by everybody” after the end, but I learned a lot
about the Chaos Emeralds; they can manipulate time to prevent death. As
for Sonic Chronicles… *sigh* I gotta be honest, Shade was a good
addition too. She’s still new and all, maybe just another
exclusive/spin-off character, but another echidna was a good idea.
Knuckles needs an echidna to love anyway =D. And not a dead echidna at
that (I’m talking of course about Tikal). E-123 Omega is a robot who’s
not an Eggman robot anymore. And now he‘s a recurring character.
Shallow character, but tolerable. (C’monnn… he’s a robot. =D) The
Chaotix team are really quite annoying, but none-the-less, they got
included in Sonic Heroes. That makes them officially recurring
characters, so they’re okay. Charmy isn’t quite as annoying as Big or
Marine in terms of shallow characters, and Vector’s personality is…
okay, Vector sucks (FIND DA COMPOOTER ROOM!! -.-;; ). But then Espio is
a quiet, closed-personality ninja. TRY and tell me that isn’t a cool
addition.
Chaos and Tikal I would like to see included in later plot elements, to
be honest. Characters are considered “shallow” because they haven’t
been explored enough, and Sonic Team adds too many new characters
before that can happen, in my opinion. If they explored characters and
added dimensions to existing characters, then there would be no need to
add new ones. I mean c'mon... they're in the Master Emerald. They're
RIGHT there. They're just ASKING to come back. It wouldn't be hard at
all. =/
The biggest of all the villains, and of course my absolute favorite of
all time: definitely Metal Sonic. Just the concept of Metal Sonic has
been glorified to me since my youth. I saw that anime movie with Sonic
and Metal Sonic and I just… loved it (although it is non-canonical to
me now). His inclusion in Sonic Heroes just… god, it just blew my mind.
Even though the plot was a little hard to follow in Sonic Heroes (I
guess because Sonic Team expected you to just GET it), adding Metal
Sonic back into the picture post-Sonic Adventure was just… beautiful.
Turning him into a giant dragon? Might’ve spoiled my experience a
little, but none-the-less, Metal is back, and the feeling is good.

That cover everything? Hope so. Spin-offs next.

Post-Sonic Adventure spinoffs: Which are canon, which are not,
and which should never be spoken of again? Let’s start with Sonic
Riders. I will never except those stupid overgrown flickie-birds as
recurring characters. They will stay out of mainstream Sonic for good,
I’m convinced of that. I told you, I have a vengeance against flickies,
and they look like flickies, and they suck as characters. The Sonic
storybook series is just like Sonic Riders; and when I say that, I
don't mean they suck as games (well, Black Knight might), they just
will never be mentioned in mainstream because, really, the stories are
just metaphors and dreams and the like. Darkspine and… what was it,
Excalibur Sonic? Just METAPHORS. For Super Sonic, of course. Or did you
really believe that Knuckles was ACTUALLY Sinbad, or Sir Gawain the
knight?
However, the chili dog reference in the beginning of Black Knight has
FORCED me to accept that Sonic loving Chili Dogs is, in fact,
canonical. which is fine with me. I always missed that comical
aspect. (on a side note, Sonic being called "Knight of the Wind" in
Black Knight was a very interesting metaphor to me, As I have always
associated Sonic with “Wind“.)
Uh… okay, Sonic Battle for GBA. Remember what I said about no super
transformation = suck? Yeah. This game lacked that “ ‘GRR, I AM
ULTIMATE EMERL, I WILL DESTROY THE PLANET!!!’…and suddenly a DRAMATIC
Super Sonic transformation directly following!!” feel to it. Sonic
Battle didn’t really have a deep fighting system anyway. Oh yeah, and
they did the same thing as Sonic Spinball with the Emeralds; made them
all one color. How cheap is that? And they broke them up into Emerald
Shards... Which, you know, is fine with the Master Emerald; not so much
with the Chaos Emeralds. But obviously Gizoids are popular among the
handheld games, because they get talked a lot about in Chronicles. So I
say this game is conditionally canonical, with the only exception being
the Emeralds, because I like the gizoids. Really good comeback as
villians in Chronicles.

Okay, I’m done. So is there anything I haven’t really covered, or maybe
anything you have a different opinion on? If so, I would really like to
debate on it as I could use different inputs for my Sonic fanfic.

Seriously? Who wants to read all that?

I would if I had time. :>_>:

And to go along with it.....

Joe, stop that fool.

Joe's post has been deleted. That will clean up the clutter here. Carry on with the topic.

sykog77 wrote:

Erazor wrote:I've noticed that most of the smart members there are getting dumber. And here I thought it could be contained in the Sonic forums.

Is it a disease?

I think it may be. Best keep their kind out of here.

Erazor wrote:

sykog77 wrote:

Erazor wrote:I've noticed that most of the smart members there are getting dumber. And here I thought it could be contained in the Sonic forums.

Is it a disease?

I think it may be. Best keep their kind out of here.

Funny how you say that when 80% of our members were originally from Sega.

sykog77 wrote:

Erazor wrote:

sykog77 wrote:

Erazor wrote:I've noticed that most of the smart members there are getting dumber. And here I thought it could be contained in the Sonic forums.

Is it a disease?

I think it may be. Best keep their kind out of here.

Funny how you say that when 80% of our members were originally from Sega.

Most of them got out before it spread.

Not to mention quite a few are Sonic Games forum frequenters.
And no, it's not a disease, it's a curse. I've said this before, the forum is cursed by evil. Just because the geniuses abandoned the Sonic Games forums like the cowardly selfish jerks they are doesn't mean the other forums wouldn't suffer as well. Alas, yes, this was predicted to happen, and now because the geniuses have weakened so much and others have left, the forums are falling more victim to the curse. And despite the fact the curse can be fought, it seems quite obvious no one is willing to repair it.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Not to mention quite a few are Sonic Games forum frequenters.
And no, it's not a disease, it's a curse. I've said this before, the forum is cursed by evil. Just because the geniuses abandoned the Sonic Games forums like the cowardly selfish jerks they are doesn't mean the other forums wouldn't suffer as well. Alas, yes, this was predicted to happen, and now because the geniuses have weakened so much and others have left, the forums are falling more victim to the curse. And despite the fact the curse can be fought, it seems quite obvious no one is willing to repair it.

That made me laugh. Or maybe they just got bored?

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Not to mention quite a few are Sonic Games forum frequenters.
And no, it's not a disease, it's a curse. I've said this before, the forum is cursed by evil. Just because the geniuses abandoned the Sonic Games forums like the cowardly selfish jerks they are doesn't mean the other forums wouldn't suffer as well. Alas, yes, this was predicted to happen, and now because the geniuses have weakened so much and others have left, the forums are falling more victim to the curse. And despite the fact the curse can be fought, it seems quite obvious no one is willing to repair it.

Simply because you can tolerate mental retardation being blasted into your face non-stop doesn't mean everyone else can. To quote Vivian Gee, posting on the Sonic boards "is like fighting a wall".

Now trolling, that's where it's at.

Erazor wrote:

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Not to mention quite a few are Sonic Games forum frequenters.
And no, it's not a disease, it's a curse. I've said this before, the forum is cursed by evil. Just because the geniuses abandoned the Sonic Games forums like the cowardly selfish jerks they are doesn't mean the other forums wouldn't suffer as well. Alas, yes, this was predicted to happen, and now because the geniuses have weakened so much and others have left, the forums are falling more victim to the curse. And despite the fact the curse can be fought, it seems quite obvious no one is willing to repair it.

Simply because you can tolerate mental retardation being blasted into your face non-stop doesn't mean everyone else can. To quote Vivian Gee, posting on the Sonic boards "is like fighting a wall".

Now trolling, that's where it's at.

No, it's not toleration. I tolerate very little. And no, other people can tolerate it far better than I can. They would just rather be the very thing they complain about. After all, trolling is apparently where it's at.

The Freedom Fighter wrote:

Erazor wrote:

The Freedom Fighter wrote:Not to mention quite a few are Sonic Games forum frequenters.
And no, it's not a disease, it's a curse. I've said this before, the forum is cursed by evil. Just because the geniuses abandoned the Sonic Games forums like the cowardly selfish jerks they are doesn't mean the other forums wouldn't suffer as well. Alas, yes, this was predicted to happen, and now because the geniuses have weakened so much and others have left, the forums are falling more victim to the curse. And despite the fact the curse can be fought, it seems quite obvious no one is willing to repair it.

Simply because you can tolerate mental retardation being blasted into your face non-stop doesn't mean everyone else can. To quote Vivian Gee, posting on the Sonic boards "is like fighting a wall".

Now trolling, that's where it's at.

No, it's not toleration. I tolerate very little. And no, other people can tolerate it far better than I can. They would just rather be the very thing they complain about. After all, trolling is apparently where it's at.

You seem to misunderstand the point of trolling. Or you're trying to be insulting. Either way you're incorrect.